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Nzoner's Game Room>Let's all wildly speculate about playcalling.
Direckshun 08:58 AM 12-06-2021
So it has seemed that the playcalling is off this year, no question. It has led a lot of people to speculate that Andy Reid is not making all of the calls.

I personally was not in those ranks; I didn't think there was any chance the Chiefs, who just signed a franchise QB to a half a billion dollar contract, would change up playcalling during a Super Bowl window.

But I do think the Mahomes/Bienemy spat on the sideline gave the game away (because why yell at Bienemy if you hate the playcalls?). And just so you don't think I started a thread based on only my intuition, my suspicions were echoed by extremely sharp Chiefs analysts Tod Palmer and Nick Jacobs on their "4th & 1" podcast. They don't think Reid is calling all the plays.

There is some circumstantial evidence to that. The Chiefs have been run-happier-than-usual on 2nd & longs for much of the season.

We've also seen Mahomes demand plays coming in repeatedly this year, which I've suspected was a kind of angst or anxiety but I think what's happening there is Bienemy's playcalling rhythms may be slower than Reid's, with whom Pat's synced up with for years.

I think I read Mahomes' lips during the sideline spat, saying "call the fucking play" and "call it." Which could very well be a dispute over the playcalling itself, or really just the rhythm.

Either way, that may account for some wonkiness in Mahomes' play this year.
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DJ's left nut 10:16 AM 12-06-2021
I just don't understand how game after game you can look at the 2-3 drives/gm that came undone by just awful drops and unforced errors and still think playcalling is the problem.

At least 11 points off the board yesterday due to braindead drops. And another 3 at least from an underthrow where Mahomes got hit as he threw.

There are guys open all over the place. And Mahomes is hitting them, usually deep in the opponents territory. And they're just gacking it. And since teams are unwilling to let us throw over the top on them anymore, it's DAMN difficult to make up for those.

You watch that 20 play drive from the Broncos and there wasn't a single impressive play in there - just a team that didn't screw up. That's it. There were no creative concepts, no fantastic individual efforts - just precision that we haven't seen this year.

And STILL the Broncos came away with no points.

Folks this is a damn hard game to play well. And right now too many guys on this squad just aren't, including the 2 most important pass-catchers we have (and the guy who's presumptively emerged as the 3rd option). Meanwhile we've lost confidence in our 2nd rounder to boot - and with fair cause.

he playcalling is working. The plays are working. The players just aren't executing.
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petegz28 10:19 AM 12-06-2021
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I just don't understand how game after game you can look at the 2-3 drives/gm that came undone by just awful drops and unforced errors and still think playcalling is the problem.

At least 11 points off the board yesterday due to braindead drops. And another 3 at least from an underthrow where Mahomes got hit as he threw.

There are guys open all over the place. And Mahomes is hitting them, usually deep in the opponents territory. And they're just gacking it. And since teams are unwilling to let us throw over the top on them anymore, it's DAMN difficult to make up for those.

You watch that 20 play drive from the Broncos and there wasn't a single impressive play in there - just a team that didn't screw up. That's it. There were no creative concepts, no fantastic individual efforts - just precision that we haven't seen this year.

And STILL the Broncos came away with no points.

Folks this is a damn hard game to play well. And right now too many guys on this squad just aren't, including the 2 most important pass-catchers we have (and the guy who's presumptively emerged as the 3rd option). Meanwhile we've lost confidence in our 2nd rounder to boot - and with fair cause.

he playcalling is working. The plays are working. The players just aren't executing.

That 20 play drive also included Ward dropping what should have been a very easy INT. So they did screw up. They just got away with it.
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petegz28 10:21 AM 12-06-2021
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
Yeah, not only the dropped passes but the gamescript never allowed us to open up at the end because our D had them shut down.

People attacking Mahomes for last night are going overboard.

I do still feel a little sick in my stomach watching our offense but that has been a recurring theme this year.
I think you are seeing an offense that spent the last 3 seasons, including this past offseason, preparing to play one way only to find out teams are onto that way and now we are having to play differently and do it on the fly.

Plus I think there is a little complaceny in our play at times.
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DJ's left nut 10:23 AM 12-06-2021
Originally Posted by petegz28:
That 20 play drive also included Ward dropping what should have been a very easy INT. So they did screw up. They just got away with it.
Truth - though if Ward could haul in those sorts of balls with regularity, he'd play WR. That was a ball that 90% of WRs catch and 20% of DBs do.
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SuperBowl4 10:27 AM 12-06-2021
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990:
There’s apparently a video of Mahomes and Beinemy jawing at each other last night. Anyone have it?
I have it.:-)
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dirk digler 10:31 AM 12-06-2021
Originally Posted by petegz28:
I think you are seeing an offense that spent the last 3 seasons, including this past offseason, preparing to play one way only to find out teams are onto that way and now we are having to play differently and do it on the fly.

Plus I think there is a little complaceny in our play at times.
It shouldn't be a mystery at this point in the season. I bet the Raiders abandon their scheme this week and run 2 high.
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ThaVirus 10:31 AM 12-06-2021
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
And another 3 at least from an underthrow where Mahomes got hit as he threw.
Ugh, I had forgotten about that one. That one probably goes for 6 and completely changes the narrative today.

It truly is a game of inches.
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Red Dawg 10:32 AM 12-06-2021
The running game is working and they decide to stop running the ball. Why? Pure stupid to throw it so much when clearly we can't this season.
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tredadda 10:34 AM 12-06-2021
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
The biggest issue is our lack of a #2 WR because it allows teams to play shell coverage, keep linebackers back to avoid getting burned by our RPO game, and bracket Hill/Kelce back and forth.

This then forces us to be patient and run the ball, throw short passes. Throwing short passes to Hill can work but it's not ideal.

And then Mahomes/Reid both are addicted to explosive play offense and both do silly things in terms of playcalling, QB play when they are forced out of their comfort zones for extended times.

The longer drives needed also result in players making more mistakes and you see Hill and Kelce dropping more than they should, players careless and fumbling, or lineman taking penalties and our offense can't recover because we don't have the same options we did when we had too many guys to cover.

So it's lots of things that feed on each other.

We need to do lots of little things better to get out of this.
The lack of a true #2 WR would be something if we always had a healthy Sammy. We didn't for huge stretches. Our offense was not as explosive when he was out, but it wasn't this bad.
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OnTheWarpath15 10:34 AM 12-06-2021
Originally Posted by dirk digler:
It shouldn't be a mystery at this point in the season. I bet the Raiders abandon their scheme this week and run 2 high.
IIRC, they run it less frequently than anyone in the league...
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wazu 10:36 AM 12-06-2021
Did we really have a full post game press conference with Patrick Mahomes and nobody asked about the thing with Bieniemy?
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dlphg9 10:38 AM 12-06-2021
I've said this before and I'll say it again.

If Andy Reid thinks that we have the game in the bag, then he goes vanilla. He's not going to show his hand if he doesn't have to. Reid has had 100% confidence in this D recently, because they are just wrecking shit and if he doesn't think we need to score a lot, then we aren't going to score alot.

Also, this offense can overcome a holding penalty to start a drive, but when you combine the mistakes with those penalties, then it's impossible to overcome. The play calling isn't responsible for the dropped passes or tipped INTs. Mahomes has a different mindset than Andy. He wants to score alot. When that's not happening, then he starts to press and throws the ball short or too high. When your guys are having trouble catching the football and you throw it too high, then there is a decent shot that the ball is going to get picked, especially when the D has 7 men in coverage.

If our D has an off game, then this O is going to score 35+ if they have to. I think the reason why this team is never "hitting on all cylinders" is because Andy isn't going to show any new concepts on O and when you show the same looks, then it makes it easy on the opposing D to stop you.
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T-post Tom 10:39 AM 12-06-2021
Reid and/or Mahomes should be calling the plays over EB. I suspect EB has an expanded role this year & is calling more plays. Sadly, his play-calling is restricting the greatness of this offense. The hype to get him a HC job is a mirage. He’s a great rah-rah guy, but not an offensive guru. Put him under a defensive-minded Head Coach or with anything less than great offensive talent and he’s an unsuccessful, short-lived OC. He’s not going to scheme many wins for this or any other team.

That said, I appreciate the win last night. Love seeing Chris Jones back in the middle and the defense playing with swagger. Hope the offense finds its mojo going forward. I know they can. Beat the faiders any which way and then lay a 50 burger on the dolts. Time to put the division back in its rightful state.
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dlphg9 10:41 AM 12-06-2021
Originally Posted by Red Dawg:
The running game is working and they decide to stop running the ball. Why? Pure stupid to throw it so much when clearly we can't this season.
We have the 19th most rushing attempts in the league. That's the highest we've been ranked in rushing attempts since 2016. We're running the ball plenty.
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MahomesMagic 10:42 AM 12-06-2021
Originally Posted by tredadda:
The lack of a true #2 WR would be something if we always had a healthy Sammy. We didn't for huge stretches. Our offense was not as explosive when he was out, but it wasn't this bad.
The issue is when we didn't have a healthy Sammy teams still didn't have the correct answer for us before.

Now the book is out. For KC when they only have 1 WR drop 2 safeties, keeps lbs back, and bracket Hill and Kelce back and forth.

So the fact we got away with not having a #2 when Sammy was hurt last year doesn't really help us now.

Now we need a #2 if we want to be the "Chiefs" that includes an unstoppable offense. We can still be good without a #2..but only if we execute far better and it will always feel like we are running up hill if teams play us correctly.
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