Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
More than that - the Chiefs coaching advantage FORCED the call.
They just aced the Eagles secondary twice on whip routes. And JJSS sure looked like he was about to make the third edition of it. Those officials watched the Eagles be completely unable to cover that route legally all night and now they see a clear hold as JuJu is coming out of his break.
And what nobody's mentioning when they say "did the hold impede" - look what it did from the rear angle for Bradberry. Without that hold, Bradberry is roasted. From that side-ish angle you can't see it as much but from the rear angle you can see that the hold is HOW Bradberry was able to get his momentum shifted and stay with JJSS.
When a guy's about to get waxed for a 3rd time because the secondary has been playing aggressive all night and has been toasted by that same route 2 previous times, how can you NOT throw the flag there? It wasn't just a situation where the ref threw a flag that hadn't been thrown to that point, he threw the flag because Reid and company forced their hands through two previous brilliant calls that put the officials on notice that these dudes simply cannot play the style they're playing and cover that route.
Originally Posted by Kman34:
So we should hold NFL refs to a high standard to get calls right except for the end of the game? It just shouldn’t be called because it’s under 2min is a bullshit argument..
I blame that dumbass Greg Olsen for saying stupid shit without actually watching the replay.. Called attention to it, to every dumbass casual football fan who doesn’t really know the game..
He was also hoping Butker would slip and miss the FG. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
More than that - the Chiefs coaching advantage FORCED the call.
They just aced the Eagles secondary twice on whip routes. And JJSS sure looked like he was about to make the third edition of it. Those officials watched the Eagles be completely unable to cover that route legally all night and now they see a clear hold as JuJu is coming out of his break.
And what nobody's mentioning when they say "did the hold impede" - look what it did from the rear angle for Bradberry. Without that hold, Bradberry is roasted. From that side-ish angle you can't see it as much but from the rear angle you can see that the hold is HOW Bradberry was able to get his momentum shifted and stay with JJSS.
When a guy's about to get waxed for a 3rd time because the secondary has been playing aggressive all night and has been toasted by that same route 2 previous times, how can you NOT throw the flag there? It wasn't just a situation where the ref threw a flag that hadn't been thrown to that point, he threw the flag because Reid and company forced their hands through two previous brilliant calls that put the officials on notice that these dudes simply cannot play the style they're playing and cover that route.
It's just stupid.
Doesn't matter, won rings...
I think I'll go watch the All-22 now. Thanks. [Reply]
Originally Posted by petegz28:
So we should allow holding in the last 2 mins of a game if the score is within 1 score for either team? Is that it?
I've heard that argument but it does ring a little hollow.
Because imagine that we run an inside trap or something and Thuney gets his hands briefly outside the pads in creating a hole that Pacheco plows through to score a go-ahead TD. Then it gets reversed to a holding penalty.
We'd be PISSED. And be saying absolutely the exact thing Eagles fans are saying right now. Hell, we HAVE said all those things in the past, going all the way back to the Fisher/Harrison play.
I think the better argument is that this play IS egregious and prior events provide the context that establish it as such. No, he didn't tackle the guy, but the officials truly had no choice here, IMO. [Reply]
The only argument that makes sense is if they were consistently allowing that level of defensive holding or worse all game (not just a single wHy NoT tHiS OnE!) , only to call that one at the end.
Basically the opposite of the old "let 'em play" at the end of games, where there isn't a level of consistency for players to know what they're allowing throughout the game (and again, not just getting away with it once or twice and then thinking you'll keep getting away with it). [Reply]
Originally Posted by Bearcat:
The only argument that makes sense is if they were consistently allowing that level of defensive holding or worse all game (not just a single wHy NoT tHiS OnE!) , only to call that one at the end.
Basically the opposite of the old "let 'em play" at the end of games, where there isn't a level of consistency for players to know what they're allowing throughout the game (and again, not just getting away with it once or twice and then thinking you'll keep getting away with it).
They kinda were.
The Eagles DBs were grabby all night and that was the first holding call of the game. [Reply]
Did the refs decide the game when they called Dee Ford offsides? Hell, you could even argue that on that particular call that they could've given him a warning.
Funny how this shit doesn't get said when it's the Chiefs. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Bearcat:
The only argument that makes sense is if they were consistently allowing that level of defensive holding or worse all game (not just a single wHy NoT tHiS OnE!) , only to call that one at the end.
Basically the opposite of the old "let 'em play" at the end of games, where there isn't a level of consistency for players to know what they're allowing throughout the game (and again, not just getting away with it once or twice and then thinking you'll keep getting away with it).
Makes me think of the Dee Ford offsides. I would not be surprised if he lined up offsides multiple times in that game. Looking back, I am not upset that the refs called it, because they should. Regardless of whether they allowed it earlier in the game does not mean that it's not a penalty. Simply put had Ford been onsides then they don't leave it in the hands of the refs. Same with the Bradberry hold. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I've heard that argument but it does ring a little hollow.
Because imagine that we run an inside trap or something and Thuney gets his hands briefly outside the pads in creating a hole that Pacheco plows through to score a go-ahead TD. Then it gets reversed to a holding penalty.
We'd be PISSED. And be saying absolutely the exact thing Eagles fans are saying right now. Hell, we HAVE said all those things in the past, going all the way back to the Fisher/Harrison play.
I think the better argument is that this play IS egregious and prior events provide the context that establish it as such. No, he didn't tackle the guy, but the officials truly had no choice here, IMO.
Okay, define egregious and get 2 sides to agree on it.
As much as I have been on the other side of this coin, don't commit the penalty and most likely there won't be a flag. [Reply]
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Exactly what I was going to say.
The detractors do have a point there - there were a couple of blatant holds/DPI's that weren't called on the Eagles earlier in the game.
Of course, the flip side of that is that they WEREN'T called and that's one of the main reasons the Chiefs were down 10 in the first place.
And that's why I focused on how our schematic advantage forced the referees hand.
You expose that they simply can't cover that route without holding and what choice do you give them at that point? Suddenly a visually iffy penalty ain't that iffy because you saw they HAD to do it to stay in phase. [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
Did the refs decide the game when they called Dee Ford offsides? Hell, you could even argue that on that particular call that they could've given him a warning.
Funny how this shit doesn't get said when it's the Chiefs.
No cared when Jones got called for roughing Brady when he had his hand on his shoulder.
No one cared when Brady threw a pass 10 rows into the stands and we got called for DPI.
No one cared when Evans and Breland got their feet tangled and we got called for DPI
See, those are actual penalties that did not happen. Not even ticky-tack. They flat out did not happen. [Reply]
