Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Just for the record - Wanye gets beat in the Packers game and it's "Well Patrick took the drop 9 yards deep - Morris did his job; that sack is on Pat, not Wanye..."
When it's Taylor he's 'getting beaten like a red-headed stepchild'
Mahomes was 13 yards past the LOS (you can't really tell from that clip; you can from the overhead) and you can tell from how Taylor is setting up that he's NOT expecting Mahomes that deep. He had all the time in the world to kick out more and didn't because he figured the pocket would be further up. If you watch that clip from the snap, Taylor spends the first second or two foot-firing with perfect squared position on the DE. The guy wasn't trying to get upfield because Taylor had him dead to rights.
Then Mahomes gets too deep in his drop and just creates an easy pass rush angle that Taylor has no way to anticipate. That's when that clip picks up and Taylor looks awful. But that clip is halfway through the play and Taylor has it completely under control until Mahomes does his drift shit.
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Here's the whole play:
The play that isn’t getting talked about. The 4th down. They clear everything out for Kelce underneath at the sticks. If Mahomes gets 1 more second to his right, he can hit Kelce in stride for the conversion. Instead he has to rush it before his arm gets hit. #Chuefspic.twitter.com/JWDF5ixlVS
Mahomes just did weird shit in the pocket for no reason and that's why he ran out of time. He has all the space he needs - again - to just step up and make the damn throw. And it was clearly opening up.
Kid's a mess right now.
I didn’t believe he was 13 yards deep when you said it but I will admit upon seeing the other vid.
Well.. that is an indictment on the entire interior then, because Smith was just a minor speed bump for his man, Thuney was getting walked back into Mahomes’ lap, and Creed wasn’t doing much of anything.
If Mahomes takes a standard 5 step drop there he still ain’t getting that throw off. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Hammock Parties:
Hey, at least this shit is happening now....
I can't BEAR Mahomes doing that at the end of a playoff game. IT CAN'T HAPPEN! IT'S NOT POSSIBLE! LOOK AT THE FILM!
Hard re-set, my man.
Kid's head just isn't there. Hasn't been all season. Maybe its frustration, maybe it's distraction, maybe it's just one of those years. I'm not 'blaming' him for it - just making note of it. Nobody has their best year every year. Guys have off seasons - even the GOATs.
But I think we're gonna get exactly what you're hoping to avoid here. We're gonna have a play with the game on the line and he's just not gonna come through. And that'll be that. We'll get him some new targets, he'll get some time away and we'll come back ready to rock next season.
I just don't know how you flip a switch after 13 games. I don't know how you lock back in. This doesn't appear to be a blip. [Reply]
Originally Posted by ThaVirus:
I didn’t believe he was 13 yards deep when you said it but I will admit upon seeing the other vid.
Well.. that is an indictment on the entire interior then, because Smith was just a minor speed bump for his man, Thuney was getting walked back into Mahomes’ lap, and Creed wasn’t doing much of anything.
If Mahomes takes a standard 5 step drop there he still ain’t getting that throw off.
Naw - he has a big ol spot to step up to up and to his left. Thuney re-sets and creates a simple little step up that keeps him about 10 yards deep - enough for Taylor's man to go well clear of him up the arc.
Ball should've been thrown from the 35/36 yard line and he has the space/time for a dart right between the 8 and the 7. He just got jumpy and didn't execute. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
The more I watch that play the more frustrating it is.
That pocket is great. And look at how composed both Taylor and Morris are. Morris gets a great chip from Jet so he has it under control. Taylor has complete anticipated the rush and he's just chopping those feet and perfectly under control waiting for the rusher to make a move before he commits.
Turns out Mahomes simply lost the pocket and all Taylor's perfectly laid plans were for naught.
That entire play is on 15. All of it. He just completely blew it. His teammates executed perfectly and he just didn't.
We've paid however much money for the interior OL, he doesn't trust it. We've paid however much for the T's, doesn't trust them.
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
No it doesn't.
Taylor isn't setting up for a 13 yard pass rush depth. He has his man completely handled and is essentially standing there waiting for him to come at an 8-10 yard angle.
Mahomes drifts to 13.
No, Taylor doesn't get beat there - he gets hung out to dry. He can't cheat to a 13 yard depth - he'll get murdered inside every time. And he can't anticipate that Mahomes is going to do that, not when he can see there's no pressure off his left shoulder that would've collapsed the pocket and kept Mahomes from stepping up.
That play is 100% on Mahomes. That's not even "Man, PM didn't reach his usual bar of greatness" - it's simply bad QB play. It's shit I wouldn't want to see from Aidan O'Connell.
He's gotta be better there.
I’m not seeing it.
Out of the gun, what would you say is an appropriate drop for a QB here? Like, how many yards from the LoS should Mahomes be in your opinion? [Reply]
Out of the gun, what would you say is an appropriate drop for a QB here? Like, how many yards from the LoS should Mahomes be in your opinion?
You can see where his drop is supposed to stop. He starts to drift when he hits it. It's right as he stops his 'short steps' that are part of his drop and they get longer on him. Those aren't part of a normal drop.
Drop is supposed to be to about the 36, IMO. That's a 10 yard drop (which is still deep, but nothing Taylor wasn't ready for).
Mahomes takes it back to the 33 and does it with no real rhyme/reason. He's just moving his feet to no purpose and drifting towards Taylor in the process to make the angle all the more impossible for him to deal with.
I have no idea what Taylor could've done differently there. It doesn't make any sense for Mahomes to have ended up where he did. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Hard re-set, my man.
Kid's head just isn't there. Hasn't been all season. Maybe its frustration, maybe it's distraction, maybe it's just one of those years. I'm not 'blaming' him for it - just making note of it. Nobody has their best year every year. Guys have off seasons - even the GOATs.
But I think we're gonna get exactly what you're hoping to avoid here. We're gonna have a play with the game on the line and he's just not gonna come through. And that'll be that. We'll get him some new targets, he'll get some time away and we'll come back ready to rock next season.
I just don't know how you flip a switch after 13 games. I don't know how you lock back in. This doesn't appear to be a blip.
The game became much harder for him this season. He's never had to deal with the offense being this way on these terms.
In 2021 he had talent. They just needed to figure out how to adjust to defenses. This year it's completely different. His WR's are completely mismanaging the easiest of WR practices. Dropping the ball, fumbling, running the wrong route.
I think the Broncos game exposed those mistakes and they kept making them and it's snowballed since.
Idk. I'd get Richie more snaps, keep focusing on Rice and Kelce and use Toney as a gadget player primarily. When Hardman comes back sprinkle him in.
Some of this is coaching and as much as people stick their fingers at Nagy, we've got a first ballot HOF HC who is an offensive savant. I can't believe he hasn't figured this out. Pacheco, Rice and Kelce alone are quality talent. Toney and Hardman are good gadget players.
They need to keep taking shots downfield. Build confidence and get back on track this month. These teams aren't good [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
You can see where his drop is supposed to stop. He starts to drift when he hits it. It's right as he stops his 'short steps' that are part of his drop and they get longer on him. Those aren't part of a normal drop.
Drop is supposed to be to about the 36, IMO. That's a 10 yard drop (which is still deep, but nothing Taylor wasn't ready for).
Mahomes takes it back to the 33 and does it with no real rhyme/reason. He's just moving his feet to no purpose and drifting towards Taylor in the process to make the angle all the more impossible for him to deal with.
I have no idea what Taylor could've done differently there. It doesn't make any sense for Mahomes to have ended up where he did.
Idk, that’s tough, man.
Check these stills here. I stopped it when he hits the 36. On a normal play I would agree it’s probably the way it was supposed to go, but this being 4th and 15 complicates things, IMO.
The second set of stills were taken from my estimation at the earliest point he could feasibly let it fly as he needs to wait for MVS to clear the middle for Kelce (you can see Kelce meandering as well as he is waiting on the middle to open up for him).
Look at the 36 yard line at that point. Smith’s man is a free rusher at that point and Thuney would be right on top of him.
He does unnecessarily drift toward Jawaan, but even if he stayed directly behind the center, he’s really got no space to step up and follow through. Like, he may have been able to make the throw in a phone booth and I understand that is necessary sometimes.. idk.
On a field with 11 guys a busted play is rarely ever solely on one player. I’ll say many can share some blame here but I’m not putting it all on Mahomes.
Rewatching it again, he actually does end up drifting right back to center-line where he should have been once he feels the pressure from the right side. At the point he releases the ball, you can see he is right back on the hash so I’m not sure drifting even impacted the play a ton.
He’s also at about the 34 yard line by that point and you can see Thuney’s back foot is literally on the 36. We’re really asking him to make the throw from the 35 yard line in a phone booth and take a hit from a 320 pound DT to his ribs after he makes the throw.
I understand you have to make that throw sometimes and I fully expect him to do so when it matters in January/February, but I don’t see how we can consider this a good rep from the OL (outside of Wanya but he had help).
From my point of view, it's a combination of issues. Patrick is an exceptional talent yet I believe defenses are exploiting his strength of unscripted plays and showing looks that aren't what the defense is actually doing. Case in point is his tendency to roll out to the right; there's been multiple instances where he does this and the DE is anticipating this and is in his face. Add that he tends to take deep drops and the RT appears to be giving pass/run plays away by how he lines up and his first move on the snap.
Add that he doesn't trust his receivers and many times, Kelce is being mauled so he hesitates throwing the ball to the open receiver because of the lack of trust. I believe in the fake it until you make it theory however I'm not sure you can do that in a pressure situation. [Reply]
Originally Posted by ThaVirus:
Idk, that’s tough, man.
Check these stills here. I stopped it when he hits the 36. On a normal play I would agree it’s probably the way it was supposed to go, but this being 4th and 15 complicates things, IMO.
The second set of stills were taken from my estimation at the earliest point he could feasibly let it fly as he needs to wait for MVS to clear the middle for Kelce (you can see Kelce meandering as well as he is waiting on the middle to open up for him).
Look at the 36 yard line at that point. Smith’s man is a free rusher at that point and Thuney would be right on top of him.
He does unnecessarily drift toward Jawaan, but even if he stayed directly behind the center, he’s really got no space to step up and follow through. Like, he may have been able to make the throw in a phone booth and I understand that is necessary sometimes.. idk.
On a field with 11 guys a busted play is rarely ever solely on one player. I’ll say many can share some blame here but I’m not putting it all on Mahomes.
Originally Posted by ThaVirus:
Rewatching it again, he actually does end up drifting right back to center-line where he should have been once he feels the pressure from the right side. At the point he releases the ball, you can see he is right back on the hash so I’m not sure drifting even impacted the play a ton.
He’s also at about the 34 yard line by that point and you can see Thuney’s back foot is literally on the 36. We’re really asking him to make the throw from the 35 yard line in a phone booth and take a hit from a 320 pound DT to his ribs after he makes the throw.
I understand you have to make that throw sometimes and I fully expect him to do so when it matters in January/February, but I don’t see how we can consider this a good rep from the OL (outside of Wanya but he had help).
No drop is ever going to be over 11 1/2 yards. If someone is dropping that far, you're putting your tackles in too much of a bind by making that angle alot easier. [Reply]
Mahomes doesn't have a problem with his protection or his line. He's trying to buy time for these receivers to get separation, because they do precisely dick for the first three seconds of the play, then the added bonus of are they even going to make the catch when the ball gets there if not fumble it. He's totally in his own head over it. [Reply]