The issue with this thread is people see a guy speed-rushing TEN YARDS around Zeus, sacking Mahomes that deep, and thinking he sucks. I'm not saying he's blameless, but we don't know what was supposed to happen.
Some of these plays, to me it looks really obvious Zeus is basically OK with allowing a guy to rush that wide. He doesn't go out of his way to try to get a block, by design. Sometimes he even helps steer the guy that way. 15 is definitely supposed to step up on some of these plays.
Either way, anyone talking about or thinking we're gonna replace him is beyond delusional. The only question is whether he gets tagged or long-termed right now. But he's our LT for the next few years, and we could do a LOT worse. We should be way more focused on who the RT is gonna be. Do they invest any more draft capital in the OL, sign a low-key FA or hope for development/staying healthy from within? [Reply]
No draft capital to invest this year, I bet Veach and Co. are scouring the likely cuts now for a development body and looking for the D2/D3 nugget. [Reply]
Originally Posted by CupidStunt:
The issue with this thread is people see a guy speed-rushing TEN YARDS around Zeus, sacking Mahomes that deep, and thinking he sucks. I'm not saying he's blameless, but we don't know what was supposed to happen.
Some of these plays, to me it looks really obvious Zeus is basically OK with allowing a guy to rush that wide. He doesn't go out of his way to try to get a block, by design. Sometimes he even helps steer the guy that way. 15 is definitely supposed to step up on some of these plays.
Either way, anyone talking about or thinking we're gonna replace him is beyond delusional. The only question is whether he gets tagged or long-termed right now. But he's our LT for the next few years, and we could do a LOT worse. We should be way more focused on who the RT is gonna be. Do they invest any more draft capital in the OL, sign a low-key FA or hope for development/staying healthy from within?
the issue with this thread is some people have convinced themselves that good enough is good enough, and those people casually forget that "good enough" at 3.3 million dollars is not the fucking same as "good enough" with an $18M cap hit.
there is no guarantee "he will get better." there is a guarantee he will get "more expensive."
I LOVED the trade for Brown. I still do. But he gets beat on speed rushes and not just 10 yards up field. Sometimes it's a fucking A train to downtown Mahomesville, and we can't afford that - literally - in two years when we need to replace a ton of expiring contracts.
If Brown is going to "get better" or "lose weight and get quicker" then he needs to go ahead and plan on not having an offseason, because you simply cannot invest the resources that it's going to cost long term on a guy who is "good enough."
One small injury and you drop below that threshold. [Reply]
Originally Posted by saphojunkie:
the issue with this thread is some people have convinced themselves that good enough is good enough, and those people casually forget that "good enough" at 3.3 million dollars is not the ****ing same as "good enough" with an $18M cap hit.
there is no guarantee "he will get better." there is a guarantee he will get "more expensive."
I LOVED the trade for Brown. I still do. But he gets beat on speed rushes and not just 10 yards up field. Sometimes it's a ****ing A train to downtown Mahomesville, and we can't afford that - literally - in two years when we need to replace a ton of expiring contracts.
If Brown is going to "get better" or "lose weight and get quicker" then he needs to go ahead and plan on not having an offseason, because you simply cannot invest the resources that it's going to cost long term on a guy who is "good enough."
One small injury and you drop below that threshold.
There are no guarantees...at all in the NFL.
Other than perhaps this one: good LT's are expensive.
Do you feel like Orlando Brown is going to be a good NFL LT for many years? Then you pay him. Because...you're going to pay somebody. You're not going to be in a position to draft one. Nobody lets good young ones get away. So...you can pay Brown, or you can pay someone else.
I can go either way, honestly. I think Brown is a good player, but I think that perhaps his strengths and what we prefer to do aren't perfect matches. I think he's perfect for run first teams that play-action a lot. Baltimore, Tennessee, maybe even San Fran would all be good fits for his skillset.
Brown has forced Mahomes to do some things differently. I don't know that it's a bad thing, really, but it depends on what Andy, Veach, and Mahomes think.
You can tag and trade him, and to the right team, you can get a really nice pick there. But then you're going to have to pay someone else immediately, because you're not getting a starting LT at the bottom of the draft order.
But make no mistake- good LT's are hard to find. Give up on one that's 25 to take a chance on getting a different one? I don't know. Either way, you're going to pay one, and do so this coming offseason or at best next offseason. [Reply]
We can’t move him to right tackle because Mitchell Schwartz is coming back.. Shit.. Guess we are going to have to release him and plug in Niang when he’s healthy again.. [Reply]
Originally Posted by tredadda:
We are not talking about a guard here. Elite or at least above average LTs do not grow on trees. Say we don't sign him to a long term deal and he is franchised and balls out. Then what? He becomes even more expensive, especially if your 3rd or 4th round "developmental" LT doesn't develop like you hope.
About half of the 1st round (and 80% of 2nd round) left tackles don't develop like you hope, let alone a late rounder.
It's absolutely foolish to fuck around with it. Tag him or pay him, but make sure he's here. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
There are no guarantees...at all in the NFL.
Other than perhaps this one: good LT's are expensive.
Do you feel like Orlando Brown is going to be a good NFL LT for many years? Then you pay him. Because...you're going to pay somebody. You're not going to be in a position to draft one. Nobody lets good young ones get away. So...you can pay Brown, or you can pay someone else.
I can go either way, honestly. I think Brown is a good player, but I think that perhaps his strengths and what we prefer to do aren't perfect matches. I think he's perfect for run first teams that play-action a lot. Baltimore, Tennessee, maybe even San Fran would all be good fits for his skillset.
Brown has forced Mahomes to do some things differently. I don't know that it's a bad thing, really, but it depends on what Andy, Veach, and Mahomes think.
You can tag and trade him, and to the right team, you can get a really nice pick there. But then you're going to have to pay someone else immediately, because you're not getting a starting LT at the bottom of the draft order.
But make no mistake- good LT's are hard to find. Give up on one that's 25 to take a chance on getting a different one? I don't know. Either way, you're going to pay one, and do so this coming offseason or at best next offseason.
I don't think you said a single thing that isn't true.
I'm just going to point out that everyone is saying you have to pay Orlando Brown, because you can't ever replace him with a low first round pick.
this, however, casually ignores that brown himself was a third round pick. [Reply]
Originally Posted by penguinz:
A late pick that becomes a true #1 LT is an outlier.
For sure, and I'm not advocating letting Brown walk for nothing this offseason. I'm only offering that his current level of play will become problematic with a huge contract extension. I would prefer to be good/great at multiple positions.
My strategy to achieve that would be to tag Brown and make a concerted effort to
A) coach him up
B) Slim him down
C) scout for a replacement
I totally get that he's good, he will get a big contract, and you should expect to pay your LT big time money. All that tracks. But he's not just an anchor out there that you plug and play and never worry about again.
Sign him, that's fine. But no matter what they need to be looking to upgrade that position, either through his development or with a drafted player. [Reply]
Originally Posted by saphojunkie:
For sure, and I'm not advocating letting Brown walk for nothing this offseason. I'm only offering that his current level of play will become problematic with a huge contract extension. I would prefer to be good/great at multiple positions.
My strategy to achieve that would be to tag Brown and make a concerted effort to
A) coach him up
B) Slim him down
C) scout for a replacement
I totally get that he's good, he will get a big contract, and you should expect to pay your LT big time money. All that tracks. But he's not just an anchor out there that you plug and play and never worry about again.
Sign him, that's fine. But no matter what they need to be looking to upgrade that position, either through his development or with a drafted player.
At this point in his career, Eric Fisher was a borderline bust. This time last year we all shed tears because it looked like he was done in KC and we were going to need a new LT.
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
At this point in his career, Eric Fisher was a borderline bust. This time last year we all shed tears because it looked like he was done in KC and we were going to need a new LT.
The kid is 25 years old.
Totally fair point. Look, I like Orlando Brown Jr. But there are times his lack of athleticism jumps off the screen, and it absolutely concerns me. He doesn't suck, he's not outclassed, but he has real, visible limitations, and that is always concerning when you're lining up for a huge contract.
Hopefully it just drives his cost down, which I'm more than happy with. I'd be thrilled to get him on a long term deal that wasn't top 5 in the league in AAV, because he's not top five in the league in ability. I just don't know if that's possible. [Reply]
