Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
I strongly disagree with the thesis that the Chiefs have not improved as much as the Bengals and Eagles.
Defensively, the Chiefs' "significant" losses are Juan Thornhill and Frank Clark. Charles Omenihu is an upgrade over a full season from Clark. You can make a good case that year 2 Brian Cook (who came on well at the end of the year) + Mike Edwards is at least as good as Thornhill + rookie Cook, an there's more upside.
The rest of the secondary, which featured 3 rookie CBs, including one who missed a big chunk of the season due to the shitty turf in Arizona, should be improved in year 2. Especially McDuffie. Sneed is Sneed.
So, overall, a better secondary for 2023 is a reasonable expectation.
The pass D will also be upgraded with the addition of Drue Tranquill, a proven vetern who defends the pass well at the LB spot. He upgrades KC at the WLB spot, and allows Willie Gay to play SLB, improving pass coverage there, too. Tranquill offers a major improvement as the dime LB, too, in pass coverage, should the Chiefs treat him like Ben Niemann.
In addition to upgrading one DE spot, the Chiefs also added a day 1 pick at DE, will get a better version of Karlaftis in year 2, and have bought in some rookies who can fill specific roles well.
Offensively, the T combo is potentially a nice upgrade from Brown/Wylie. A healthy Donovan Smith is roughly as good as a pass protector as "good" Orlando Brown, and Jawaan Taylor offers a significant upgrade from Andrew Wylie. Better OL, and a WR room whose floor is similar to 2022, wtih significantly more upside.
So, I would say that the Chiefs upgraded stylistically at T, in upside at WR, and have strengthened their back 7 significantly.
What have the Bengals done? They added Orlando Brown, Jr. at LT, who I don't see as a major upgrade from Jonah Williams. Jonah Williams, if/when healthy, may give them a nice bump from end-of-year at RT, but his issues vs. power rushers would still be present there.
I'll predict the "Orlando Brown upgrade" talk turns quickly to "Orlando Brown contract disaster" talk when he underperforms the contract as a pass protector and the Bengals have to stop taking deep drops without giving him help.
I don't see major improvements there, especially when there's the matter of some key losses on defense (both safeties). Myles Murphy is a nice addition at DE, but usually when a player falls like that, there's a reason. I would guess he gives them a Karlaftis like impact, though.
As for the Eagles, the offense looks similar, but the D lost a lot. Chauncey Gardner-Johnson is really good. The LB was a loss (and I don't buy the Nakobe Dean hype). The DL will be counting on some unproven guys to step in for proven veterans, one of them the biggest force multiplier on their DL.
The Eagles also are going to play a much tougher schedule this year, with more strong/complete offeneses and competant QBs.
I don't see really any improvements for the Eagles. No personnel upgrades, just hoping young players adequately replace departed vets.
Bengals are still concerning. They stayed put on defense and our offense still stalls against them. More importantly their OL that was missing 3 starters will presumably be healthy this year. I still think burrow and Allen on their best days pose a problem for any great defense including ours. I don't think any defense can stop our offense on our best day and no opposing qb can outshoot us. Yet cincy and buffalo (50/50) have brought out some of our worst 4th quarters. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
Bengals are still concerning. They stayed put on defense and our offense still stalls against them. More importantly their OL that was missing 3 starters will presumably be healthy this year. I still think burrow and Allen on their best days pose a problem for any great defense including ours. I don't think any defense can stop our offense on our best day and no opposing qb can outshoot us. Yet cincy and buffalo (50/50) have brought out some of our worst 4th quarters.
It's the NFL, and those teams have QB2 and QB3. It's a league designed for parity. You're not going to just dominate every opponent. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
It's the NFL, and those teams have QB2 and QB3. It's a league designed for parity. You're not going to just dominate every opponent.
Our offense is capable of dominating these defenses fairly consistently. But we've really been 50/50 against the defenses of our biggest rivals. And we've put up complete zeros in the 4th in about half of those games. for as prolific as our offense has been, you know how many avg points per game we scored in second halves of the last 10 regular season games was? 10.5. Our most disappointing losses the past few years had solid enough defense but surprisingly it's been the offense that just didn't get the job done.
To your point about a WR taking away from the cap, that is only if you believe we need balance. Theres another school that says you build a dominant offense and from there build the best possible defense with what you have left. And yeah I believe we're one piece away from that and that isn't crippling. I don't care if it takes away from the defense or if it means making hard decisions on low positional value players. When our offense is at its best we are flat out unbeatable. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
Our offense is capable of dominating these defenses fairly consistently. But we've really been 50/50 against the defenses of our biggest rivals. And we've put up complete zeros in the 4th in about half of those games. for as prolific as our offense has been, you know how many avg points per game we scored in second halves of the last 10 regular season games was? 10.5. Our most disappointing losses the past few years had solid enough defense but surprisingly it's been the offense that just didn't get the job done.
To your point about a WR taking away from the cap, that is only if you believe we need balance. Theres another school that says you build a dominant offense and from there build the best possible defense with what you have left. And yeah I believe we're one piece away from that and that isn't crippling. I don't care if it takes away from the defense or if it means making hard decisions on low positional value players. When our offense is at its best we are flat out unbeatable.
With the recent signing of an edge the Bills are effectively out of running because that have absolutely no money. It still could be the lions, but that signing does at least increase our chances. Will Hopkins hold out until after the start of training camp to make a decision? Curious to see if that will be the case. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Boxer_Chief:
With the recent signing of an edge the Bills are effectively out of running because that have absolutely no money. It still could be the lions, but that signing does at least increase our chances. Will Hopkins hold out until after the start of training camp to make a decision? Curious to see if that will be the case.
No no no, he's waiting for this thread to hit 2000. Pay attention [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
Bengals are still concerning. They stayed put on defense and our offense still stalls against them. More importantly their OL that was missing 3 starters will presumably be healthy this year. I still think burrow and Allen on their best days pose a problem for any great defense including ours. I don't think any defense can stop our offense on our best day and no opposing qb can outshoot us. Yet cincy and buffalo (50/50) have brought out some of our worst 4th quarters.
Stayed put? Their entire secondary will be different. [Reply]
There's a real chance this could blow up in the face of whichever organization he goes to. He's already getting old for a WR and the chance of injuries is pretty high. He may not have that many highly-productive games left.
I'd only take him for a really team-friendly deal. If he'll only settle for a huge deal....bye. That's the kind of desperate move that a team like the Bills would make. KC's fine. The WR room will be fine. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Reroka:
Would love Dhop but, right now we do not have the money. Jones or Mahomes needs to sign an extension so we can free up some money.
Not sure he is coming here, if he wants a ring then sign here for less than he wants, he wants to be paid, go to a team that won't win an SB.
Chris jones is in his final year. We have to do an extension regardless, so that’s neither here nor there. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
Bengals are still concerning. They stayed put on defense and our offense still stalls against them. More importantly their OL that was missing 3 starters will presumably be healthy this year. I still think burrow and Allen on their best days pose a problem for any great defense including ours. I don't think any defense can stop our offense on our best day and no opposing qb can outshoot us. Yet cincy and buffalo (50/50) have brought out some of our worst 4th quarters.
Our offense stalls against them? They had a full compliment on D, we had no recievers and a one legged Mahomes and beat them when it mattered most. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
Bengals are still concerning. They stayed put on defense and our offense still stalls against them. More importantly their OL that was missing 3 starters will presumably be healthy this year. I still think burrow and Allen on their best days pose a problem for any great defense including ours. I don't think any defense can stop our offense on our best day and no opposing qb can outshoot us. Yet cincy and buffalo (50/50) have brought out some of our worst 4th quarters.
Yeah, that's something a Bengals fan would say.
The Bengals defend the Chiefs better than most teams, but their success against Mahomes has really been exagerrated/skewed by the second half of the 2021 AFC championship game (Jan 22).
Outside of that half, the Chiefs offense has been really successful against the Bengals. They did OK against Mahomes on one leg and a WR receiver corps that was down to using TEs for WR routes in the most recent championship game, but were getting diced up because Toney and Smith-Schuster went down.
All that aside, one of the reasons they've been successful is that the secondary, especially the S, were really good at moving around and mixing up and disguising what they're doing. They've had complete turnover at S and 3/5 of their nickel DB group will be different. I wouldn't call that "standing pat." [Reply]