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Nzoner's Game Room>***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***
JakeF 10:28 PM 02-26-2020
A couple of reminders...

Originally Posted by Bwana:
Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.
Originally Posted by Dartgod:
People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

[Reply]
Monticore 10:28 AM 10-02-2021
Originally Posted by O.city:
Using antibodies as the sole determining factor in anything just doesn’t make sense to me. Antibodies always wane, they don’t stick around forever nor do we want them to.
I agree , I just really understand why people are making big deal people make about the breakthrough or reinfections , your body will only start mounting a defense once it has been exposed let's say you had 0 antibodies at the time .

I understand the ability to spread is an issue but i don't understand why people are using at a sign the vaccines aren't effective.
[Reply]
Chief Pagan 10:48 AM 10-02-2021
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
This isn't about bad predictions.

I thought the vaccines would be better than they are and thought with natural immunity + vaccine immunity we would have very little transmission by now.

Obviously the vaccine immunity didn't add much to built up natural immunity...now top epidemiologists are saying we can't vax our way to herd immunity.
If the country had a 90%+ vaccination rate including kids, I bet things would be back to normal by now.

But between Delta and big pockets of low vaccination rates, yeah it's sticking around. The vaccination rate stalling out and the virus continuing to spread has been my prediction all along.
[Reply]
MahomesMagic 11:00 AM 10-02-2021
Originally Posted by Chief Pagan:
If the country had a 90%+ vaccination rate including kids, I bet things would be back to normal by now.

But between Delta and big pockets of low vaccination rates, yeah it's sticking around. The vaccination rate stalling out and the virus continuing to spread has been my prediction all along.
Israel disproves this.


They got their 2 shots and now are talking about shots 3 and 4.

Things go back to normal only when we stop mass asymptomatic testing and just declare things over.

China went back to normal in March 2020 with no vaccines.
[Reply]
O.city 11:08 AM 10-02-2021
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
Israel disproves this.


They got their 2 shots and now are talking about shots 3 and 4.

Things go back to normal only when we stop mass asymptomatic testing and just declare things over.

China went back to normal in March 2020 with no vaccines.
Except it doesn't. Israel went ahead early in rates of vaccination, but in terms of population, they aren't near where some of the European nations that are now relaxing every thing are. Last I saw, they were around 64% fully vaccinated.

But to go further into your post here, are you saying asymptomatic testing is where our cases are now?
[Reply]
MahomesMagic 11:39 AM 10-02-2021
Originally Posted by O.city:
Except it doesn't. Israel went ahead early in rates of vaccination, but in terms of population, they aren't near where some of the European nations that are now relaxing every thing are. Last I saw, they were around 64% fully vaccinated.

But to go further into your post here, are you saying asymptomatic testing is where our cases are now?
Israel, Norway, and Sweden are all within 2 percentage points here.

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021...-vaccinations/


With regards to testing, mass testing creates mass chaos. Just test people that are sick or in LTC facilities or hospitals.

You can't go back to normal if you are still worried about cases.
[Reply]
O.city 11:49 AM 10-02-2021
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
Israel, Norway, and Sweden are all within 2 percentage points here.

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021...-vaccinations/


With regards to testing, mass testing creates mass chaos. Just test people that are sick or in LTC facilities or hospitals.

You can't go back to normal if you are still worried about cases.

So as we can see, still large areas and pockets of non immune people. Pretty easy to see why cases and such are up and down. Israel has fully vaccinated 64% of it's population. So no, Israel isn't a test case for that numbers wise.


Ok, so we know vaccines reduce hospitalizations and deaths but can lead to cases. But you don't seem to care about those so whats the problem? Seems like you argue yourself in a circle.
[Reply]
MahomesMagic 11:52 AM 10-02-2021
Originally Posted by O.city:
So as we can see, still large areas and pockets of non immune people. Pretty easy to see why cases and such are up and down.


Ok, so we know vaccines reduce hospitalizations and deaths but can lead to cases. But you don't seem to care about those so whats the problem? Seems like you argue yourself in a circle.
I could say the same for you.

The decision to go back to normal is a political choice. It has nothing to do with any metrics.

Sweden and Norway back to normal and Israel still in panic mode and talking about 4th booster and 4th lockdown.

It's not I who decided to panic, I am simply stating what is happening there.
[Reply]
O.city 11:57 AM 10-02-2021
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
I could say the same for you.

The decision to go back to normal is a political choice. It has nothing to do with any metrics.

Sweden and Norway back to normal and Israel still in panic mode and talking about 4th booster and 4th lockdown.

It's not I who decided to panic, I am simply stating what is happening there.
While there are still non immune folks out there, it's gonna spread pretty quickly. I'd imagine, that's what the issue is.

Sweden has about 65% fully vaccinated population along with a pretty high amount of previous infection.

Israel still has a high amount of non immune as well.

I'm not really sure what you're arguing here. Things are and have been completely back to normal here in our area for well over a year. Cases, hospitalizations and deaths exploded starting in June, went thru July and August and are now going back down.

Nothing changed. At some point there's enough immunity to slow it down. It won't stop it from being endemic, it's not going away.

I think I've been pretty consistent in this thread so I guess, feel however you want. Quite a few people in this thread and around these parts have been pretty impacted by Covid, it's pretty sad.
[Reply]
dirk digler 12:04 PM 10-02-2021
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
Israel disproves this.


They got their 2 shots and now are talking about shots 3 and 4.

Things go back to normal only when we stop mass asymptomatic testing and just declare things over.

China went back to normal in March 2020 with no vaccines.
Just an FYI China is back on lock down.
[Reply]
MahomesMagic 12:06 PM 10-02-2021
Originally Posted by dirk digler:
Just an FYI China is back on lock down.
China has been open since March 2020 with no vaccines.

They do want us to be closed and they do like to use propaganda against the West.

I don't believe a word of what they say.
[Reply]
lawrenceRaider 06:50 AM 10-03-2021
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
China has been open since March 2020 with no vaccines.

They do want us to be closed and they do like to use propaganda against the West.

I don't believe a word of what they say.
Yes, I'm sure their inability to deliver goods, or even keep electricity provided to their manufacturing sector is all a big show.

They want the world to move manufacturing home or to other SE Asian countries who didn't fuck the world.
[Reply]
lawrenceRaider 06:57 AM 10-03-2021
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
I could say the same for you.

The decision to go back to normal is a political choice. It has nothing to do with any metrics.

Sweden and Norway back to normal and Israel still in panic mode and talking about 4th booster and 4th lockdown.

It's not I who decided to panic, I am simply stating what is happening there.
Not sure what you are trying to argue here. Sweden and Norway aren't arguments for your stance on the pandemic. Both have higher vax rates than we do, much much higher in Norway's case.

Israel is an outlier at the moment, not the norm.

Why aren't you talking about Portugal?

Doesn't fit your world view, so you ignore it.
[Reply]
MahomesMagic 08:24 AM 10-03-2021
Originally Posted by lawrenceRaider:
Not sure what you are trying to argue here. Sweden and Norway aren't arguments for your stance on the pandemic. Both have higher vax rates than we do, much much higher in Norway's case.

Israel is an outlier at the moment, not the norm.

Why aren't you talking about Portugal?

Doesn't fit your world view, so you ignore it.
There are states in the US with vaccinated percentages as high as the Nordics and they aren't back to normal. Why not?!

The US will never get to 75 percent. The people running the US response will never have the public trust the way Nordic health officials have . They also have no vaccine passports or mandates.

If you say the US can't get back till 75, 80 percent then we are never getting to normal.

Fauci just confirmed his position is Zero Covid. In other words, even with no deaths and low hospitalizations he wants to keep this game going.

His Zero Covid is as fringe scientifically as your denial of natural immunity.
[Reply]
lawrenceRaider 09:02 AM 10-03-2021
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
There are states in the US with vaccinated percentages as high as the Nordics and they aren't back to normal. Why not?!

The US will never get to 75 percent. The people running the US response will never have the public trust the way Nordic health officials have . They also have no vaccine passports or mandates.

If you say the US can't get back till 75, 80 percent then we are never getting to normal.

Fauci just confirmed his position is Zero Covid. In other words, even with no deaths and low hospitalizations he wants to keep this game going.

His Zero Covid is as fringe scientifically as your denial of natural immunity.
So tell us all the restrictions people are living with in these states that have you believing they are authoritarian nightmares.

We have none here in Kansas that effect anyone's lives. Same with every state around us, even "liberal" Colorado.
[Reply]
TLO 08:50 AM 10-04-2021

Covid in retreat.
"Whatever this autumn brings, the worst of the pandemic is almost certainly behind us."https://t.co/AEQAWRwIHy @DLeonhardt pic.twitter.com/lVIdpMExNV

— Eric Topol (@EricTopol) October 4, 2021

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