Originally Posted by Wilson8:
I hope that the Chiefs really like what they are seeing in their current WRs. Saves us money and it means that we are better prepared for the future.
I also hope that if DeAndre Hopkins signs with us, it is a very team friendly contract.
If Hopkins does not sign with us, it is a team that gives him lots of money and the team really isn't very good.
Per ESPN just now, Hopkins is traveling to TEN later this week for a visit. Would be best if he went there, imo. Far better than having him end up in BUF or JAX. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
First off, I've said consistently and repeatedly that we don't need DHop. But that we do need a true veteran high football IQ WR to leaven all the young/inexperienced WRs we have. Once, after a couple Scotches, I said we need DHop, maybe a month ago. That's it.
In the last half dozen posts I've stayed out of the speculation business. I literally posted facts, statistics, measurable data. I also tried to skew the data in favor of the passing offense, by omitting the first 8-9 games, because we rebuilt the entire WR room, and I didn't think it was fair to include all the early games when the WRs struggled the most. They were still learning everything, so i unilaterally gave them a pass for the first half of the season.
The data pretty strongly suggest that the WRs underperformed significantly last season. That's been my point over the last half-dozen posts, period.
The responses I've read have been mostly speculation/conjecture.
Again, I didn't speculate that the Chiefs would lose a ton of games, or that they wouldn't make the playoffs, etc. In fact, I've said 100% of the time that I think the Chiefs will probably make the playoffs, and the AFCCG.
I simply laid out the data, and poked a couple holes in the idea that the title "best scoring offense/most yards/etc." meant that the offense was rolling along perfectly in 2022.
The data clearly doesn't support that. It shows that the WRs underperformed. That Travis performed at an extremely high level to hide some of the WRs inefficiencies. That McKinnon also overperformed and hid some of that inconsistency by the WR room.
The data even shows that in the latter half of the season, the defense played a bigger part in some of the Chiefs victories in 2022 than the WRs did. But this is a thread mostly about offense, so I left that out as well.
You're a pretty smart football guy. Always read your opinions with interest. Let me ask you objectively: of the three weapons groups, RBs, TEs, and WRs, is it satisfactory for the WRs to produce less than 30% of the total offense? Knowing that for every other playoff team over the last twenty years or so the WRs almost universally account for closer to 40% of the total offense? Is it sustainable if Travis isn't playing up to his OPOY standard?
Actually, forget 'sustainable.' Does it look like 'the plan' to have the WRs account for significantly less production (nearly 400 yds/19 fewer TDs) than the TEs/RBs? Does that even sound like an Andy Reid plan?
Here's where I speculate: it looks like Andy saw that the WRs were unable to consistently produce around Week 9, and put a band-aid on it by getting McKinnon/Pacheco more involved. Idk 100% that this is true, but based on the stats/data it certainly appears that way after Mecole went down around Week 9. JM caught just 19 balls through Week 8, and 37 between Weeks 9-17. Pacheco 3/12.
It seems pretty straight forward to me. If it doesn't to you, I'd love to read your statistically-backed, data-driven (non-speculative) retort.
What would you say the WR yards percentage was under Vermeil? Kennison had 1000 yards like once, I think. Morton never did. Hall took a few years to get fully integrated into the offense the way he was and never had 1000 yards. Are we really that far off from those years? And yeah... Green was a 4000-yard passer, not a 5000 yard passer, and we operated the offense through Priest Holmes/LJ, yadda yadda. I understand the differences.
I don't think it's an issue if the RBs are eating into a chunk of the "acceptable" WR totals. Or the TEs, for that matter. We've got a pretty damn good group of TEs, and even without Kelce, each guy does different things well enough that I wouldn't say any of them make me cringe and go, "Oh God get that guy off the field he's worthless" the way I would many other teams' 3rd and 4th TEs.
In other words, like you said a long time ago, it's fine. I see no reason why we can't be just as successful on offense as we were last year provided we *knock on wood* stay mostly healthy across the board. And if this is the year Kelce starts to wind down a little bit and we don't really see much of a rise in production from the returning/new WRs from last year? You don't trust Andy to figure something out? He's the GOAT of retooling his offenses from year to year and adjusting and exploiting generic weaknesses, and Mahomes is the GOAT of finding extra yards/points where there are none to be had at the hands of mortal QBs.
I don't know if you wanted stats, but it seems like a fairly non-speculative response to me. [Reply]
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
Have fun with Tannehill, I guess.
Goes to show he either has zero interest from contenders or just wants the $$. Don’t blame him either way but the Titans are just about the worst landing spot for a receiver that wants to win anything. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
I'll wait to see what DJBILL has to say about this.
He was at a Turkish bathhouse with his neighbor last night and in between tugs his neighbor let it slip that KC is no longer interested in Dhop. They have seen Justyn Ross in OTAs and believe he is the second coming of Calvin Johnson. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
What would you say the WR yards percentage was under Vermeil? Kennison had 1000 yards like once, I think. Morton never did. Hall took a few years to get fully integrated into the offense the way he was and never had 1000 yards. Are we really that far off from those years? And yeah... Green was a 4000-yard passer, not a 5000 yard passer, and we operated the offense through Priest Holmes/LJ, yadda yadda. I understand the differences.
I don't think it's an issue if the RBs are eating into a chunk of the "acceptable" WR totals. Or the TEs, for that matter. We've got a pretty damn good group of TEs, and even without Kelce, each guy does different things well enough that I wouldn't say any of them make me cringe and go, "Oh God get that guy off the field he's worthless" the way I would many other teams' 3rd and 4th TEs.
In other words, like you said a long time ago, it's fine. I see no reason why we can't be just as successful on offense as we were last year provided we *knock on wood* stay mostly healthy across the board. And if this is the year Kelce starts to wind down a little bit and we don't really see much of a rise in production from the returning/new WRs from last year? You don't trust Andy to figure something out? He's the GOAT of retooling his offenses from year to year and adjusting and exploiting generic weaknesses, and Mahomes is the GOAT of finding extra yards/points where there are none to be had at the hands of mortal QBs.
I don't know if you wanted stats, but it seems like a fairly non-speculative response to me.
Firstly, thanks for the thoughtful response. It's a nice change of pace from most of the other responders lately.
As for the Vermiel years, neither ESPN/PFD go further back than 2003, so I can't really take a look at those numbers completely. So I hesitate to say anything definitive about those at this point.
Bell/Gray/Fortson accounted for 24.5yds/game, and Fortson didn't really do anything for the season, again.
Bell statistically was more productive in 2022 than in previous seasons, but there's no trend upward for him in the latter half of the season. He was who he was from week 1 through week 17. In short, the TE room is Travis, the rest are placeholders. If something happens to Travis, it's unlikely Bell/Grey/Fortson will be able to take up his slack.
I trusted Andy before he came to KC. His Eagles were pretty much the only other team I watched regularly between 2001-2001. Which is why I was so excited when he came to KC. So yeah, I trust him a lot.
But even Andy needs proper ingredients to make his magic. Last season the WR room didn't hold up their end, and I would rather they not underperform again this season, because I doubt that's going to be successful long-term. that's all I'm saying. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88:
Hope he enjoys run blocking because that's what he'll be doing a lot of in Tennessee.
He's actually one of the best run-blocking WRs in the NFL. Not sure if this was always the case, but since he came to ARI he has been. Maybe Larry helped him with that. [Reply]