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Fantasy/CasinoPlanet>Alternate Reality Game 1: Chiefs
Rain Man 12:15 AM 03-22-2009
The original post is below in blue, but let's summarize it here based on the past few years.

1. If you're a new player, start with the current Chiefs roster. If you've been playing for a while you'll have your own evolved roster.

2. You can add any free agent that the Chiefs add.

3. You lose any free agent that the Chiefs lose, but only if they were on the Chiefs' roster when you began playing.

4. You can accept or reject any trade the Chiefs make as long as any Chiefs player involved is currently on your roster.

5. You do not get players that the Chiefs draft. You draft your own players, using the same draft picks that the Chiefs have.

6. You can trade down ONE time before the draft or after the draft. If you trade down before the draft, you get up to full value for your pick according to this chart: (Note: this chart was updated in 2022.) If you trade down after the draft, the value of the picks you trade must be discounted by at least 25 percent. Any trade down must involve only the picks of one NFL team, and you cannot receive more than two picks more than you give up. (In other words, if you trade away one draft pick you cannot pick up more than three in return.) The other team's picks also must be picks that they held prior to the opening of the draft. See the examples at the bottom of the post.

6. You can trade up ONE time before the draft or after the draft. If you trade up before the draft, you get up to full value for your pick according to this chart: (Note: this chart was updated in 2022.). If you trade up after the draft, the value of the picks you trade must be discounted by at least 15 percent. Any trade up must involve only the picks of one NFL team. The other team's picks also must be picks that they held prior to the opening of the draft.

7. By the beginning of the season, you must reduce your total roster to include only 53 players.

Original post: You can ignore this now.


Added Rules and Reminders:

1. Remember that you can draft undrafted rookies, so you don't have to select only guys who were drafted.

2. Anyone can change their rookie draft selections at any time, UNTIL we reach ten days before training camp. At that point, all picks will be locked in.

3. Each team can do ONE trade of draft picks if they like, using this chart: However, if you're trading up, you have to pay 15 percent more than the stated value of the picks you're obtaining. If you're trading down, your pick's value will be discounted by 25 percent.

For example, if you want to trade up from the 20th pick in the 1st to the 10th pick, you can see from the chart that the 20th pick is worth 259 points. The 10th pick is normally 369 points, but by paying 15 percent more, it will cost you 1.15*369, or 424 points. So you would need to come up with another 165 points to make the deal (424-259)

For example, if you want to trade down from the 20th pick in the 1st and pick up the 10th pick in the 2nd, your 20th pick would normally be worth 259 points, but in this game it will be worth 25 percent less, or 194 points. The 10th pick in the 2nd is worth 142 points, so you can get 52 points back from the other team. (Remember that you cannot pick up more than two extra picks in the trade, so consider your math carefully.)

You can do only ONE draft-pick trade up and ONE draft-pick trade down, and in each case you can only trade with one other team for their own picks. (In other words, you couldn't take the 52 points in the above example from a third team.)

Kellerfox 02:09 PM 05-10-2022
In real life, 100% agree on round 1 RB.

For this game, the value of securing a high probability hit (day 1 starter with heavy utilization) at any position is worth it IMO. The fact that I genuinely think Hall is destined to be a top 5 back for atleast a 5 year stretch is just added value.

We'll see how it works out for me...
Rain Man 02:11 PM 05-10-2022
Originally Posted by kccrow:
I'll be most interested to see how both of you taking Dean works out. I would have gone for Muma there myself so maybe we can compare apples in a couple of years.

I like your picks of Bryant and Calcaterra Rainman. Both could be sneaky good values. I was really high on Bryant pre-draft and strongly considered going with the same two players in the 3rd as you did, but I just couldn't get over my thing for Otton.

I like your pick of Johnson in the 4th kellerfox. You'll never find me a fan of going RB in round 1, no matter how much I might like one. That said, if I were ever to do it it would be for a guy like Hall who looks to be a complete package of size, speed, and ability. Don't know if I could have pulled that trigger, but I get it.
I was back and forth between Dean and Muma. I'm so bad at drafting linebackers that I probably should have gone with Muma as the safer pick, but here I am.

The more I read about Bryant, the more I liked him, and he was helped by the fact that I wasn't enthralled with any of the other prospects in his draft slot. I pretty much had him locked in with that pick.

Calcaterra was available pretty late for my thinking, and I've been very thin at TE for a couple of years. Hopefully he can develop and be a #2 for me behind Kelce.

And it's interesting that kellerfox is rolling the dice on Carson Strong, too. I was reading that his knee is terrible, but if not for that he would have been a high-round prospect. I'll risk a seventh-round pick on modern medicine there. I was surprised that Verone McKinley and Aaron Hansford both went undrafted and wanted to pick those guys up with my last pick, but I decided to go with Strong. I can afford to sit him for a few years while Russell Wilson starts.
Rain Man 04:35 PM 05-10-2022
Originally Posted by kccrow:
I'm very high on it. My only quarrel, and it's quite small, is the trade-up for McDuffie. I love McDuffie, don't get me wrong, but with Elam, Gordon, and Booth sitting there as well I think I would have taken what fell to me and retained those picks if my thought was that a DE was actually going to fall to me at 30.

That 3rd, as we saw, would have snagged one of the top TEs in this draft and I really think it was a mistake not to get a value at that point from this class. The Chiefs are not at all strong behind Kelce.

That trade also cost a 4th that would have put the Chiefs in a prime position to take a good RB.

It's all hindsight though, and I think Veach did well. Karlaftis, Chenal, and Kinnard were pretty awesome values IMO and I'm quite high on McDuffie, Moore and Johnson to boot.
I'll be interested to see how you fare with Raimann (who I keep reading as Rain Man) and Gunter. I was interested in both of those guys and was a coin flip on Pacheco versus Gunter with my seventh rounder.
kccrow 09:28 AM 05-11-2022
Originally Posted by Rain Man:
I'll be interested to see how you fare with Raimann (who I keep reading as Rain Man) and Gunter. I was interested in both of those guys and was a coin flip on Pacheco versus Gunter with my seventh rounder.
I'm equally curious.

I very much contemplated the trade up for Penning to lock in my LT with a guy I think will be a stud, but it would have been incredibly expensive (1-30, 2-62, 3-94, 7-251, 7-259 to get to 19) and limited my ability to do much of anything else of note. I would have been left with 3-103, 4-135, 5-173, 7-233, and 7-243.

I likely would have went:
1-19 LT T. Penning
3-103 LB L. Chenal
4-135 DE M. Clemons
5-173 DE K. Engabare
7-233 OL R. Walker
7-243 RB I. Pacheco

The double-dip at edge in the mid-rounds would be an effort to hedge my bets with slightly better-qualified talent since I'd be missing out on so much early-round talent.

In the end, I decided to just hope Raimann turns into a good player. I have many more concerns than I do with Penning but at least I'm filling in more of my roster with players I think will be really good (Karlaftis, Otton, and Allgeier specifically). It's very hard to go for broke and leave all that on the table. I banking on a higher upside with Raimann over Petit-Frere there too, which may or may not end up a mistake. Raimann has the age concern but any team would be foolish to plan past 5 years anyhow.

If next year I'm left in a similar situation then I may just have to bite down hard and take it.

Gunter, well he's a big shot in the dark on athletic traits. I'm not sure he makes it on the 53 but he may surrpise.
Rain Man 09:39 PM 06-23-2022
Originally Posted by Rain Man:
And here come my picks:

#2-58 - WR Andy Isabella (Cardinals) - I desperately need receivers. I was torn between Isabella and Metcalf, but I like Isabella's speed. I also considered not trading down and taking one of the top cornerbacks of Byron Murphy, Greedy Williams, or Deandre Baker. But I don't need cornerbacks. I would have been interested in Mecole Hardman, but didn't want to trade up to get him.

#2-61 - OLB Jaylon Ferguson (Ravens). I've been enamored with Ferguson, and my team is abysmal at rushing the passer. I also strongly considered Zach Allen, who would probably be a safer pick, but I like Ferguson as a rusher. I idly considered OLB Germaine Pratt and DE Chase Winovich, but liked Ferguson's upside more. I also considered taking Metcalf here and loading up at WR, but couldn't afford that luxury given my pass rush woes.

#3-92 - DE Anthony Nelson (Buccaneers). This was a hard pick. I considered G Dru Samia hard, with the goal of taking Joe Jackson later to fill my DE spot, but this way I can get Michael Jordan in that other spot. I hope that the Nelson/Jordan combo ends up better than the Samia/Jackson combo. I also considered T Bobby Evans, but need tackle less than other positions.

#4-128 - QB Easton Stick (Chargers). I need a backup quarterback, and Stick seems a good value in that regard. He's a stopgap who would only see action if Russell Wilson on my team goes down, but I think he's got development potential. I strongly considered Jarrett Stidham and Gardner Minshew, both of whom are probably safer picks, but I like Stick. I strongly considered Joe Jackson at DE in this spot, who I like a lot, and pondered Mack Wilson. I'd like Wilson, but need to fill other holes.

#4-136 - G Michael Jordan (Bengals). I've had trouble staffing my guard spots, and figure he's got a decent shot of grabbing a starting job. As noted above, my key question was whether to take Jordan here or take Samia earlier. I thought Jordan seemed like a better risk/reward prospect.

#5-167 - OLB Sutton Smith (Steelers). I've been intrigued by Smith and was heavily targeting him. I didn't really consider anyone else in this slot, though I liked LB David Long as well.

#6-201 - WR Kelvin Harmon (Redskins). I need WR depth, and he seemed like a great value here. I didn't really consider anyone else in this slot.

#6-214 - TE Isaac Nauta (Lions). I need TE depth, and he seemed like a good value. I was very torn between him and CB Kris Boyd, but eventually figured I had a better roster spot available for Nauta. I also briefly considered DE Jalen Jelks.

#7-243 - TE Caleb Wilson (Cardinals). I strongly considered DE Michael Dogbe and perhaps DE Jordan Brailford, but figured I'd stock up on my TE position.

My 2019 draft has underachieved so far.
kccrow 09:04 AM 06-25-2022
Originally Posted by Rain Man:
My 2019 draft has underachieved so far.
Not one to write home about bud.

Mine was pretty good overall. In the end, I have 4 starters from that class:

2019 Draft

Round 1, Selection 29 | Byron Murphy, CB, Washington (#2-33 ARZ)
Top-end nickel but struggles at times on the outside.
Round 2, Selection 48 (f/MIA) | Erik McCoy, OC, Texas A&M (#2-48 NO)
Pretty much as good as it gets at the center spot.
Round 3, Selection 92 | Oshane Ximines, ER, Old Dominion (#3-95 NYG)
Has never really developed. I had high hopes for him.
Round 4, Selection 116 (f/MIA) | Amani Hooker, DB, Iowa (#4-116 TEN)
Has steadily grown and became the starter at SS last year after 5 games (broken foot) and was solid.
Round 5, Selection 167 | Cole Holcomb, LB, North Carolina (#5-173 WAS)
Has been a starter since his rookie year and a damned good one at that. Moving inside to MLB this year so we'll see what happens with that.
Round 6, Selection 201 | Derwin Gray, OT, Maryland (#7-219 PIT)
Round 6, Selection 214 (Comp) | Alize Mack, TE, Notre Dame (#7-231 NO)
Round 7, Selection 243 | Olabisi Johnson, WR, Colorado State (#7-247 MIN)
Has maintained a spot on the roster and even started a few games but missed all of last season with an ACL tear.
Kellerfox 09:26 AM 06-25-2022
I didnít miss on a single pick in 2019Ö :-)
Rain Man 10:13 AM 08-22-2022
Originally Posted by Rain Man:
Okay, without further ado, here's my 2022 draft.

First, I didn't have the right draft picks to make any of the Chiefs' draft day trades, so none of those were on the table for me. I'm standing pat with my base picks with no trade ups or trade downs.

1-30 -George Karlaftis, DE (Chiefs) Ė I agree with the Chiefs here and our needs overlap. I have a lot of trouble drafting defensive ends, so I hope George can lock down a position.

Others considered: I very strongly considered Logan Hall at DE and would have taken him other than some concern whether he might move inside to DT. I also briefly considered Roger McCreary (CB) and Andrew Booth (CB), and a took passing look at trading down for Troy Andersen (OLB).

2-62 Ė Nakobe Dean, ILB (Eagles) Ė This was a tough pick because I had a lot of guys I like. My linebacking corps has been a perennial weak spot so Iíll invest more this year to try to get some established starters.

Others considered: I was inches from taking Malik Willis here as a developmental play. But Russell Wilson is 33 and in the modern era I can see him playing for five more years or longer. Iím rolling the dice here that I can find a QB a couple of years from now and that Russell wonít retire once he starts playing for a disorganized and hapless franchise. I also briefly looked at Matt Corral instead of Malik, but liked Malik better.

I also considered three other strong ILB prospects, in order: Chad Muma, Christian Harris, and Brian Asamoah. I liked all of them but decided to roll with Nakobe.

And finally, I was intrigued by Bernhard Raimann, but donít have an immediate need at offensive tackle.

3-94 Ė Coby Bryant, CB (Seahawks) Ė My cornerback position is okay but declining. Coby will be a great talent addition.

Others considered: David Bell was intriguing at WR, and I took a brief look at Brian Robinson at RB.

3-103 Ė Leo Chenal, OLB (Chiefs) Ė Easy choice here. Chenal was my draft crush even before the Chiefs took him, and OLB is a huge need for me.

Others considered: None, really. If Chenal wasnít there I wouldíve considered WR Danny Gray.

4-135 Ė Khalil Shakir, WR (Bills). Iíve been having talent shortages at WR for a while. It wasnít a big priority with some free agents coming in, but Shakir seems like a good value here.

Others considered: I was very intrigued by Malcolm Rodriguez (ILB) and would have drafted him if I didnít already pick up an ILB earlier in the draft. Others who got consideration were (in descending order) Kingsley Enagbare (LB), Darian Kinnard (OT), Calvin Austin III (WR), D'Marco Jackson (ILB), Sam Howell (QB), John Ridgeway (DT), Braxton Jones (OT), and Thomas Booker (DT). There was a big gap between this pick and my next one, so I had a lot of talent to consider.

6-191 Ė Grant Calcaterra, TE (Eagles). I need some tight end depth and he seemed like a good value.

Others considered: Jailen Nailor (WR) and Tyler Badie (RB)

6-209 Ė Kalia Davis, DT (49ers). This isn't an area of need, but it seemed like the best value.

Others considered: Bo Melton (WR), Tariq Castro-Fields (CB)

7-251 Ė Isaih Pacheco, RB (Chiefs) Ė I donít really need a running back, but I like his speed.

Others considered: Strongly considered Jeffrey Gunter (DE). If I hadn't already taken two defensive linemen I would've gone with Gunter.

7-259 Ė Carson Strong, QB (Eagles) Ė This is a risk/reward play. The odds are apparently low, but thereís a chance that his knee will be okay and Iíll get a good quarterback prospect cheap.

Others considered: I really liked Verone McKinley III (S) and Aaron Hansford (LB). I think all three of these guys have a good chance of becoming contributors.
My rookies are looking good overall. It's looking like I could get three new starters on defense with my top three picks, and some other notable contributors to the team.
Kellerfox 11:27 AM 08-22-2022
The top half of my draft is also looking promising, but I have a feeling that Iím going to kick myself for not taking Travis Jones (as much as I love Nakobe Dean).

With the off-season that CEH has had, Iím glad I made the semi-illogical move to take a Breece Hall. Otherwise, my team would have zero threats at RB.
Kellerfox 11:28 AM 08-22-2022
I will be out of pocket from Sept. 2-10. I’ll try to trim my roster down before leaving… but if I’m late (after the 10th), I’m asking for forgiveness in advance!
kccrow 02:02 AM 08-23-2022
I'm liking what I'm seeing from a few rookies, namely Karlaftis, Benford, and Allgeier. I don't know yet about Chenal, Otton, and Raimann for 2023 contributions.

I'm probably looking at cutting Ross and Walker. Not too sure about Johnson. I might hang onto him because I already have 4 starters at safety anyhow.

I'm super high on Karlaftis at this point or I'd really be kicking myself for not moving up for Penning. My tackle situation is dogshit right now... again.
Kellerfox 10:47 AM 08-28-2022
Busy week at work followed by a work-free vacation week, so getting things locked in now. Hopefully I don’t get “bit” by any surprise cuts/signings.

Tacoma Trash Pandas 2022 Roster

Patrick Mahomes (Chiefs)
Carson Strong (Eagles)

Breece Hall (Jets)
Kenneth Gainwell (Eagles)
Clyde Edwards-Helaire (Chiefs)

Michael Burton (Chiefs)

Juju Smith Schuster (Chiefs*)
Skyy Moore (Chiefs - Drafted)
Marquez Valdes-Scantling (Chiefs*)
Mecole Hardman (Chiefs)
Frank Darby (Falcons)
Justyn Ross (Chiefs - Drafted)
Justin Watson (Chiefs*)

Travis Kelce (Chiefs)
Jody Fortson (Chiefs)

Orlando Brown Jr. (Chiefs)
Darian Kinnard (Chiefs - Drafted)
Lucas Niang (Chiefs)
Geron Christian (Chiefs*)
Rasheed Walker (Packers)

Joe Thuney (Chiefs)
Trey Smith (Chiefs - Drafted)
Andrew Wylie (Chiefs)

Creed Humphrey (Chiefs - Drafted)
Nick Allegretti (Chiefs)


Chris Jones (Chiefs)
Eric Johnson (Colts)
Khalen Saunders (Chiefs)
Derrick Nnadi (Chiefs)
Khyris Tonga (Bears)
Tershawn Wharton (Chiefs)

Carlos Basham Jr. (Bills)
George Karlaftis (Chiefs - Drafted)
Frank Clark (Chiefs)
Mike Danna (Chiefs)
Carlos Dunlap (Chiefs*)

Willie Gay Jr. (Chiefs)
Leo Chanel (Chiefs - Drafted)
Elijah Lee (Chiefs*)

Nakobe Dean (Eagles)
Jermaine Carter (Chiefs*)
Isaiah McDuffie (Packers)

L’Jarius Sneed (Chiefs)
Rashad Fenton (Chiefs)
Mike Hughes (Lions)
Tariq Castro-Fields (Washington)

Nick Cross (Colts)
Juan Thornhill (Chiefs)

Justin Reid (Chiefs*)
Deon Bush (Chiefs*)


Tommy Townsend (Chiefs)

Harrison Butker (Chiefs)

James Winchester (Chiefs)


Tay Gowan (CB - Eagles)
Daurice Foundatin (WR - Chiefs)
Anthony Hitchens (LB - Free Agent)
Chad Henne (QB - Chiefs)
Ronald Jones (RB - Chiefs)
Kellerfox 11:01 AM 08-28-2022

First, the cuts:

I didn’t have to make many cuts (fortunately) because my roster and depth was decimated by all of the Chiefs FA departures this off-season (unfortunate). Because my team is only 2 years old, most of them were on my roster when I began (forcing them to be removed). Because Hitchens was cut, I was really hoping he’d catch on somewhere else as a starter and I could retain him… but alas… the NFL has decided he’s done.

I cut Gowan (who was one of my draft picks last year) because he’s essentially fizzled out on two teams now. He’s current CB 10 for the Eagles and I’m expecting him to be cut. I don’t think he gets another shot elsewhere. Time to cut my losses.

Fountain/Henne - cut in favor of keeping other depth at their positions whom I feel have higher long-term ceilings

Ronald Jones - I wanted to keep him and see if I could hit the jackpot if he’s traded to or cut/signs with a RB desperate team… but next on my cut list was Lucas Niang. I ultimately decided to give Niang one more year and cut Jones.

Overall team:

I feel great about the offense. Like the Chiefs, I need a RT, but we are going to score a lot of points. My big departure from the actual Chiefs roster is as RB where I have Hall and Gainwell. I think these two form a dynamic 1-2 punch rushing and receiving beyond what the Chiefs currently have. This threat will relieve even more pressure off my receivers allowing them to feast.

Defense, well…

I feel great about the DL. I’ve drafted two solid DT backups (Tonga and Johnson) as well as two young DEs primed for big years (Basham and Karlaftis). However, it goes down hill from there. At LB I’m okay, but that is counting on Dean to be a stud as a rookie. At DB, things are scary. CB has no depth (and will only get worse if we don’t resign Fenton or Sneed in the coming years) and all of my safeties are a bit of an unknown - although Nick across has looked great in preseason. We will see how the defense pans out, but I’m thinking it will be an area I need to focus on in the 2023 draft.
Kellerfox 11:26 AM 08-28-2022
Rookie report:

#1 - 29: Breece Hall, RB, Iowa State (Jets)

Reports from Jets camp have been great, but Breece has lost a few Olineman and his QB potentially dampening his 2022 outlook a bit. He will start the year backing up Michael Carter, but I expect him to be given the keys within a few weeks given the obvious talent gap between the two. They’re just making him work for it.

#1 - 30: George Karlaftis, DE, Purdue (Chiefs)

Looking like a hit for GM Kellerfox and Brett Veach. Hoping for 6+ sacks this year, but feeling good about having a long-term starter at DE.

#2 - 50: Skyy Moore, WR, Western Michigan (Chiefs)

2022 will be a brown year before he explodes in 2023 as the Chiefs WR1. Happy with my investment.

#2 - 62: Nakobe Dean, LB, Georgia (Eagles)

Dean appears to have had just an okay camp (but some good preseason games). He will start the year as the Eagles backup MLB, but my hope is that he will continue to grow/adjust into the NFL and see more playing time as the season progresses. I still expect him to be a long-term starter.

#3 - 94 : Nick Cross, S, Maryland (Colts)

Has looked like a stud in the preseason and is projected as the Colts starting SS. Hit!

#3 - 103: Leo Chanel, LB, Wisconsin (Chiefs)

Chanel has had a somewhat quiet camp and preseason.

#4 - 121: Darian Kinnard, OG/OT, Kentucky (Chiefs)

Kinnard has had a rough camp and pre season. He won’t be the quick fix at RT that I hoped for. Will hold him as a developmental prospect.

#4 - 135: Eric Johnson, DT, Missouri State (Colts)

Johnson has reportedly been a bit a bit up and down at Colts camp. He has wowed with his athleticism but also struggled adjusting from the talent gap between d2 and the NFL. He will be a key backup this season.

#6 - 208: Tariq Castro-Fields, CB, Penn State (49ers)

Can’t find much on him, think he’s bound for the practice squad.

#7 - 233: Rasheed Walker, OT, Penn State (Packers)

He’s been fighting injuries all camp and made his debut against the Chiefs last Thursday. He played ~50 snaps at RT and didn’t give up a pressure. I like his potential and think he could grow into a solid RT in a year or two,

#7 - 251: Carson Strong, QB, Nevada (UDFA - Eagles)

The Eagles haven’t given him much of a chance in camp or the preseason. I’m hoping he is smart enough to go to another teams PS after he’s cut, rather than remaining in Philly.

#7 - 259: Justyn Ross, WR, Clemson (UDFA - Chiefs)

We hardly knew ye. Primed for a year on IR.
Kellerfox 09:03 PM 08-29-2022
Originally Posted by Kellerfox:
Rookie report:

#7 - 251: Carson Strong, QB, Nevada (UDFA - Eagles)

The Eagles havenít given him much of a chance in camp or the preseason. Iím hoping he is smart enough to go to another teams PS after heís cut, rather than remaining in Philly.
Step 1 complete: the Eagles cut Strong today.
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