I posted this in another thread. But I figured it makes the most sense in this forum where we get into the nitty gritty a bit more:
I know I'm talking about Brett Veach here, and the cap magic Veach has performed over the years has been nothing short of innovative.
That being said, they're on the verge of extending Chris Jones this offseason. Aaron Donald rakes in $31m/year, and it would shock me if they locked down Chris Jones for less than $28m/year. Honestly Jones may ask to reset the market.
If that's the case, I don't know how you reset the market with Orlando Brown. He either has to come down, or you risk him sitting out when you tag him again.
Tagging him would be the best scenario, if he agrees to play: it would be the cheapest option, and (a.) you could draft a stud tackle in the 1st this year and Eric Fisher him, by letting the established vet man LT for a year while the RT gets acclimated, or (b.) you could extend Brown in the 2024 offseason, allowing you to stagger some of those massive cap hits between him and Jones.
The odds that you sign both of those guys this offseason, and have their big cap hits crash in simultaneously, doesn't seem tenable.
Thoughts?
If Chris Jones asks to reset the market at $32m/year, do you take the deal? [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
You can't just 'wipe out' restructure bonuses even if you tear up his 2023 salary. Those are on the books either way.
So with that on the books, the original contract essentially becomes 3/$60 million (everything that's been paid to him, minus his $19.5 million in base and $500K workout bonus).
Still a bargain, but you can't hand-waive the $15 million(ish) in restructure charges that his lower 2021 number put on the cap in 22 and eventually 2023. Those still exist.
I'd do what it takes with regard to Chris Jones at this point in time. He's a rare breed as a pass rusher from the DT spot and he's giving you Donald-like snaps this year. I think you could be realistic in a 4-year extension for about $116m and you're likely going to need to guarantee about $55-60m of that.
I don't think you look to shave insane money off his $27m hit next year on an extension deal converting salary to signing bonus. Maybe take $10m from the 2023 salary and spread it out over the 5 years to knock $8m off his cap hit and not make things too tricky later, but hits at 4/116 would probably be look like 25/28/30/33.
As for the OBj situation and how it ties into this... well... if you're worried about it don't do it. You can find mediocre LT play with "relative ease," at least in comparison to finding a Chris Jones. [Reply]
Yeah, Orlando Brown Jr has absolutely no bearing on this conversation whatsoever. It'd be absolutely retarded to 'reset the market' for him and Veach has shown absolutely no inclination he'd do it anyway. Chris Jones is legitimately the best player at his position in the NFL today. Orlando Brown Jr plays at a fringe top 10 level on his best days, which aren't very common. At the start of the off season I'm doing whatever I can to secure Jones as a Chief for the rest of his career. THEN we turn to OBJ and see if he wants to sign a deal more in line with his talents here or if we need to look elsewhere for LT help. [Reply]
The way to stay a dynasty is to ensure you don't overpay guys at the wrong time. I am sure the Rams are regretting the Donald deal already as he looks like he is aging.
The Patriots always seemed to know when to get rid of players.
I would love to keep him but if we could get a late 1st for him coming off his best year it would help us stay good for the long term. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Dull Tools:
Think this a hard decision.
The way to stay a dynasty is to ensure you don't overpay guys at the wrong time. I am sure the Rams are regretting the Donald deal already as he looks like he is aging.
The Patriots always seemed to know when to get rid of players.
I would love to keep him but if we could get a late 1st for him coming off his best year it would help us stay good for the long term.
Donald sure looked like Donald Sunday from where we were sitting. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
Donald sure looked like Donald Sunday from where we were sitting.
He is still really good but doesn't look like the same player as last season.
He struggled against Allegretti on Sunday. He isn't going to be anywhere near the DPOY discussions. Not what you want for the money he is getting. [Reply]
Donald is also 3 years older than Jones and was so close to retiring he had the paperwork filled out and ready to file. And he's STILL a fringe top 5 defensive player. Hell, the contract the Rams probably regret significantly more is Ramsey. That dude has been an absolute dumpster fire in big games. [Reply]
Go listen to his post-game interview after the Bills game, for example. He couldn't have been more laudatory of the organization, his teammates, etc...
Guys say stuff - I wouldn't put any stock in it.
He's going to want to get paid and if the Chiefs won't pay him, he's gonna leverage his to find someone that WILL.
But I think the Chiefs recognize how important he is to this defense and they'll get something done. You need difference makers on both sides of the ball and when you have a guy like Jones, you take care of him.
I noticed him "throwing money" in his after-sack celebration this last week. My first thought was, he is saying he wants to get PAID. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Dull Tools:
Think this a hard decision.
The way to stay a dynasty is to ensure you don't overpay guys at the wrong time. I am sure the Rams are regretting the Donald deal already as he looks like he is aging.
The Patriots always seemed to know when to get rid of players.
I would love to keep him but if we could get a late 1st for him coming off his best year it would help us stay good for the long term.
Gotta stop trying to duplicate the Patriots - they're just so !@#$ing unique. Making that your bar to clear is just setting yourself up to fail.
Here's my thought process at this point - you have Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid at the height of their powers. You have Travis Kelce STILL out there playing like the GOAT.
Odds are, this is the best foundation we'll have during the Mahomes era. Worrying about 3-4 years from now when Kelce's probably gone (or at least diminished) just doesn't work for me. Chris Jones is presently playing at a HoF level and likely will be this kind of player for another 2-3 seasons.
Keep him. Worry about the out years when you're going to have to do some rebuilding anyway after Kelce retires.
While you have a championship core, maintain it. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Hydrae:
I noticed him "throwing money" in his after-sack celebration this last week. My first thought was, he is saying he wants to get PAID.
My memory is that Jones kinda mixes up his sack celebrations and a lot of the time does an 'homage' of sorts to some other great player.
Might have meant something, I suppose. Might not have. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Gotta stop trying to duplicate the Patriots - they're just so !@#$ing unique. Making that your bar to clear is just setting yourself up to fail.
Here's my thought process at this point - you have Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid at the height of their powers. You have Travis Kelce STILL out there playing like the GOAT.
Odds are, this is the best foundation we'll have during the Mahomes era. Worrying about 3-4 years from now when Kelce's probably gone (or at least diminished) just doesn't work for me. Chris Jones is presently playing at a HoF level and likely will be this kind of player for another 2-3 seasons.
Keep him. Worry about the out years when you're going to have to do some rebuilding anyway after Kelce retires.
While you have a championship core, maintain it.
So was trading Hill the right or wrong decision? [Reply]