Orlando Brown Jr
Juju Smith-Schuster
Carlos Dunlap
Derrick Nnadi
Khaulen Saunders
Andrew Wylie
Chad Henne
Ronald Jones
Michael Burton
Blake Bell
Jerrick McKinnon
Mecole Hardman
Geron Christian
Deon Bush
Taylor Stallworth
Justin Watson
Nick Allegretti
RFA’s:
Chris Lammons
Tommy Townsend
Tershawn Wharton
Jack Cochrane
Jody Forston
Prince Tega Wanohgho [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Brown Jr will be a Chiefs long term and you’ll like it.
It’s going to happen
If Brown is a Chief, then we've made him the highest paid LT in football.
There is no other way.
Is it possible that Veach will do that? Sure, it's possible.
But I do not think it's likely. We wouldn't do that for Hill, I don't think we'll do that for Brown.
I don't think that's an unreasonable deduction.
Given Brown's waiting until the last minute and then hiring an inexperienced agent at the 11th hour to force the Chiefs' hand, I do not think he's suddenly going to be reasonable. He's built his whole life around the expectation of this second contract.
It will NOT be a reasonable deal for Kansas City. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Brown Jr will be a Chiefs long term and you’ll like it.
It’s going to happen
I used to be pretty certain of that. Before the Hill trade. Before this season, even.
But Brown has been more up-and-down this year. If he had come in and been as consistent as he was in 2021 during the second half, it might be a different story.
But I can't see the Chiefs meeting his demands and I can't see him coming off of them.
I think a tag and trade of him is most likely at this point. I keep coming back to the idea of doing a tag and trade swap with him and Da'Ron Payne, if Washington tags Payne.
Washington may be a good potential partner, regardless. [Reply]
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
I used to be pretty certain of that. Before the Hill trade. Before this season, even.
But Brown has been more up-and-down this year. If he had come in and been as consistent as he was in 2021 during the second half, it might be a different story.
But I can't see the Chiefs meeting his demands and I can't see him coming off of them.
I think a tag and trade of him is most likely at this point. I keep coming back to the idea of doing a tag and trade swap with him and Da'Ron Payne, if Washington tags Payne.
Washington may be a good potential partner, regardless.
The only issue with that is-I don't think he'll play on the tag a second time. So someone will have to be willing to pay him top of the market. I don't know that anyone will do that. I think eventually, if he wants to play, he's going to have to accept that he's not getting the top LT salary, but I don't think he'll come to that realization in time for KC to work anything out with him and it might hinder any tag and trade situation. [Reply]
You’re not getting much of anything for Brown Jr if you try to trade him. You’re telling the league he isn’t a LT so why would they think he’s a LT if one of the best organizations doesn’t?
You’ll be lucky to get a 3rd in that scenario. You’d have no leverage at all. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
You’re not getting much of anything for Brown Jr if you try to trade him. You’re telling the league he isn’t a LT so why would they think he’s a LT if one of the best organizations doesn’t?
You’ll be lucky to get a 3rd in that scenario. You’d have no leverage at all.
But you might get a 2nd. You might get a 3rd this year instead of MAYBE getting one next year - lots of IFs you definitely don't get if you just let him walk. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
You’re not getting much of anything for Brown Jr if you try to trade him. You’re telling the league he isn’t a LT so why would they think he’s a LT if one of the best organizations doesn’t?
You’ll be lucky to get a 3rd in that scenario. You’d have no leverage at all.
Oh, I think he's a left tackle, and would probably play really well in a run first offense. I just think he's a bad fit for an Andy Reid offense. I said so when he first came available, long before we signed him. I just think he's a bad fit.
He'd be good in a run first/play-action type offense. He'd be great in Tennessee, for instance. Jets maybe. San Fran. Baltimore.
He's just not a guy you can trust to pass block 35-40 times per game on an island, I don't think. [Reply]
I should clarify that a great deal of my problem with Brown is the outrageous contract demand paired with the waiting until the last minute to hire an inexperienced agent thinking he was holding the Chiefs' feet to the fire. I don't think it's operating in good faith, and it rubs me really, really wrong. I think OBJ is about a middle of the pack LT with delusions of grandeur. I don't think we should overpay for that.
And I grade him based on his demands, so when I say he's disappointing, I'm looking through this lense: top paid LT in football.
So yeah, hes not going to measure up very often. [Reply]
I agree Meck, he's just not a good fit and never was a good fit. I also agree about his fit with other teams, which is why I think he has trade value. The question will be whether or not those teams want him as their LT if they already have an established guy or a young guy. What might help the market for him will be some changing of the guard and some coaches that like to pound the rock getting positions on new teams (such as a Pete Carroll disciple or something). [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
Oh, I think he's a left tackle, and would probably play really well in a run first offense. I just think he's a bad fit for an Andy Reid offense. I said so when he first came available, long before we signed him. I just think he's a bad fit.
He'd be good in a run first/play-action type offense. He'd be great in Tennessee, for instance. Jets maybe. San Fran. Baltimore.
He's just not a guy you can trust to pass block 35-40 times per game on an island, I don't think.
Good luck finding a guy who can pass block on an island for 35-40 snaps bc there aren’t many out there if at all.
Trent Williams is regarded as the best LT in football and Frank Clark ate his lunch. There’s like a handful of guys in this league that can do what you guys are wanting.
This was the same shit with Eric Fisher. Nobody ever respected or liked him until he was gone. I see so much of Brown Jr in what people on this board thought of Eric.
The fact is that he’s actually played pretty damn well most of the time. Yes he struggled against elite rushers like Bosa/Mack (probably his worst game). It’s like you guys expect these tackles to be Willie Roaf out there, who I remind you did have bad games/stretches of games.
The offense is as good as it’s ever been. That’s partially bc Brown Jr isn’t jeopardizing it and is playing at a competent level.
The contract shit is dumb I agree, but honestly I’d rather pay him $23 million in a contract structured properly by Veach to get him to stay and just forget about the position for years so we can build the rest of the team.
Now RT? Yeah we need one of those. But again a RT is WAY easier to find than a LT [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Good luck finding a guy who can pass block on an island for 35-40 snaps bc there aren’t many out there if at all.
Trent Williams is regarded as the best LT in football and Frank Clark ate his lunch. There’s like a handful of guys in this league that can do what you guys are wanting.
This was the same shit with Eric Fisher. Nobody ever respected or liked him until he was gone. I see so much of Brown Jr in what people on this board thought of Eric.
The fact is that he’s actually played pretty damn well most of the time. Yes he struggled against elite rushers like Bosa/Mack (probably his worst game). It’s like you guys expect these tackles to be Willie Roaf out there, who I remind you did have bad games/stretches of games.
The offense is as good as it’s ever been. That’s partially bc Brown Jr isn’t jeopardizing it and is playing at a competent level.
The contract shit is dumb I agree, but honestly I’d rather pay him $23 million in a contract structured properly by Veach to get him to stay and just forget about the position for years so we can build the rest of the team.
Now RT? Yeah we need one of those. But again a RT is WAY easier to find than a LT
Fisher was a much better fit for this offense. i liked Fisher just fine.
Structuring the contract properly was a big part of why Brown rejected it as I understand things. He wants every penny guaranteed.
I just don't think I want to do that for middle of the road ability. [Reply]
I felt like Fisher was a really good LT and defended him around here a few times. He was criminally underrated and was an excellent fit for Reid's offense. OBj is nothing close to Fisher as a pass blocker. I pretty much give zero fucks about the 15 times a game the Chiefs run it and even then, at least Fisher could pull and get out in space. [Reply]
OBJ will be back next year, imo. He is well loved by his teammates and the coaching staff. However, they should give him a right tackle contract.
Extension: 5 yrs, ~20MM AAV, ~50% fully gty'd and 65% total guarantees
He can hold down the left side until we find a better LT.
Juju Smith-Schuster
You aren't finding anything better in the open market.
EXTENSION: 5 years, ~20MM AAV, 40% fully gty'd, 62.5% total guarantees.
Carlos Dunlap
Mr Dunlap, we will call you around TC time if we need you.
Derrick Nnadi
Mr. Nnadi,
Thank you for your years with the Chiefs. Your services are no longer required. I do project we will receive a late round comp pick for him.
Khalen Saunders
Mr. Saunders will be back - again he is well loved in the locker room reportedly. I think the Chiefs go the year-to-year route with him to save money, but I would probably throw a 3-4 year low guarantee deal ~4-5MM per.
Andrew Wylie
Mr Wylie can continue on the year-to-year contract as depth, but I am looking to move on a real left tackle this year, so he may find a home elsewhere. He may be worth a comp pick if he leaves.
Chad Henne
I assume Henne retires, but hennething is possible.
Ronald Jones
I assume there is a mutual parting of ways this offseason here.
Michael Burton
Michael Burton will always have a place on this roster as long as I am GM. 1 yr, 1.3MM
Blake Bell
Belldozer will get the Burton treatment. 1 yr, 1.5MM
Jerrick McKinnon
I would roll the dice one more year on McKinnon. 1 yr, 1.5MM
Mecole Hardman
Mecole will be a third round comp pick if we let him walk. So we let him walk. Basically the Toney trade is trading a comp pick this year so we can let Hardman go and get a comp pick next year.
Geron Christian
Good, cheap depth if he takes the one year 1.5MM deal.
Deon Bush
Good, cheap depth and ST contributor - 1 yr, 1.5MM
Taylor Stallworth
Mr. Stallworth, thank you for existing on our roster this year. Your services are no longer required.
Justin Watson
Cheap contributor on offense and special teams. 1 yr, 1.5MM
Nick Allegretti
Mr. Allegretti will start somewhere next year, so unless he is willing to take a cheap contract, we let him go and collect a late comp pick.
RFA’s: All will be tendered.
Chris Lammons
Tommy Townsend
Tershawn Wharton
Jack Cochrane
Jody Forston
Prince Tega Wanohgho
Letting Go:
DT x2
EDGE x1
OT x1
WR x1
OG x1
RB x1
QB x1
Blake Bell will be returned from the IR.
Bear in mind, we have like 11 draft picks this year and, if this plan is implemented, far fewer roster spots - Keep in mind we will have the following folks competing for roster spots as well:
Justyn Ross, Jerrion Ealy
It's a good thing the Chiefs roster is in a good spot though, because free agency looks like a barren cupboard for the Chiefs this year, at least in terms of splashy players.
The Chiefs have ample cap flexibility next year, which should be used to extend Chris Jones and LJ Sneed and manipulate Patrick's contract to optimize it for future free agency spending.
I put some more thought into this and thought I would try and reinvigorate the discussion.
Just a quick fact check on the OP - based on overthecap
Juan Thornhill is conspicuously missing from the UFA list - I would let him walk.
Chris Lammons is an UFA, not an RFA
I would not be likely to sign any free agents beyond camp/special team types this offseason. Thornhill, Hardman, Allegretti, Nnadi, maybe even Wylie could all bring comp picks and the free agency pool is weak.
Further, under this plan, the Chiefs would have 48 players (probably 47 after we cut Clark - and I am not convinced MVS won't get cut either) under contract before the draft - and have 11 draft picks to address needs.
My plan also left ample cap flexibility going forward, while 2023 had sufficient space for normal-course-of-business transactions throughout the season.
I have attached five extensions, after poking around some existing deals for comps.
Obviously, locking up Gay, Sneed, Jones are critical to the future of the defense.
Not attached was the Khalen Saunders extension - it came out to 4 yrs, 20 mill, 11 gty'd total and a 6 mill signing bonus.
So, assuming you have 46 players under contract for 2023 - how are you tackling this draft?
Key losses are:
DE (Clark, Dunlap)
DT (Nnadi)
RT (Wylie)
FS (Thornhill)
WR (Hardman, MVS)