ChiefsPlanet Mobile
Page 3701 of 3903
« First < 2701320136013651369136973698369937003701 3702370337043705371137513801 > Last »
Nzoner's Game Room>***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***
JakeF 10:28 PM 02-26-2020
A couple of reminders...

Originally Posted by Bwana:
Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.
Originally Posted by Dartgod:
People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

[Reply]
Chief Roundup 06:35 PM 08-28-2021
Originally Posted by jdubya:
If one is on government care I can see that happening. If one has been paying for private medical insurance, that is criminal and tyrannical
Why does the way of getting healthcare matter? It should not.
Either way, you are trying to prioritize things in a way against those that are on SS or poor versus those that made a conscious choice.
If you make a choice then there are consequences that come with that choice.
[Reply]
Bearcat 06:50 PM 08-28-2021
Originally Posted by jdubya:
If one is on government care I can see that happening. If one has been paying for private medical insurance, that is criminal and tyrannical
Is it more or less criminal and tyrannical than everyone who's being denied healthcare right now due to the lack of beds and restrictions on elective surgeries?
[Reply]
jdubya 07:06 PM 08-28-2021
Originally Posted by Bearcat:
Is it more or less criminal and tyrannical than everyone who's being denied healthcare right now due to the lack of beds and restrictions on elective surgeries?
For me to answer that with sincerity I would be entering politics and I respectfully will adhere to your request to keep this non political.
[Reply]
suzzer99 07:22 PM 08-28-2021

ICU beds in each state filled *just* w/COVID patients:
Mississippi 59%
Alabama 55.7%
Florida 53.3%
Georgia 53.1%
Texas 49.6%
Arkansas 48.1%
Louisiana 46.8%
Idaho 46.3%
Okla 42.5%
Hawaii 41.9%
N.Carolina 39.9%
Missouri 39.3%
Kentucky 39.3%
Tennessee 36%
-
Lowest: NJ 6.4%
Via HHS

— Steven Dennis (@StevenTDennis) August 28, 2021


The Alabama / Mississippi rivalry continues.
[Reply]
jdubya 07:24 PM 08-28-2021
Originally Posted by Bearcat:
Is it more or less criminal and tyrannical than everyone who's being denied healthcare right now due to the lack of beds and restrictions on elective surgeries?


How many are in the ICU right now with COPD many of which were smokers? Lets toss those damn smokers.

How many are in the ICU and cardiac Cath lab with CAD (Coronary Artery Disease) secondary to unhealthy diets and lifestyles? Lets toss those lazy stupid bastards out.

How many are in the trauma center from vehicle accidents recovery from hitting a tree while driving drunk or high on recreational drugs? Toss em

How many are taking up beds because of trauma from drunken assaults at parties or bars? Screw them, they should have known better

Motorcycle accidents? We all know motorcycles are more dangerous than cars....toss em.

Elective surges like hip and knee replacements? Probably because they went through life at an unhealthy weight and got premature arthritis.....screw them.

Cancer patients? Likely secondary to unhealthy diets and smoking and drinking too much anyway.

I think you get my point. Where do you draw the line? Who gets to play God?
[Reply]
Monticore 07:46 PM 08-28-2021
Originally Posted by jdubya:
How many are in the ICU right now with COPD many of which were smokers? Lets toss those damn smokers.

How many are in the ICU and cardiac Cath lab with CAD (Coronary Artery Disease) secondary to unhealthy diets and lifestyles? Lets toss those lazy stupid bastards out.

How many are in the trauma center from vehicle accidents recovery from hitting a tree while driving drunk or high on recreational drugs? Toss em

How many are taking up beds because of trauma from drunken assaults at parties or bars? Screw them, they should have known better

Motorcycle accidents? We all know motorcycles are more dangerous than cars....toss em.

Elective surges like hip and knee replacements? Probably because they went through life at an unhealthy weight and got premature arthritis.....screw them.

Cancer patients? Likely secondary to unhealthy diets and smoking and drinking too much anyway.

I think you get my point. Where do you draw the line? Who gets to play God?
You think 40% of ICU beds are now filled with each of these examples not sure you know how percentage work.
[Reply]
Bearcat 07:50 PM 08-28-2021
Originally Posted by jdubya:
How many are in the ICU right now with COPD many of which were smokers? Lets toss those damn smokers.

How many are in the ICU and cardiac Cath lab with CAD (Coronary Artery Disease) secondary to unhealthy diets and lifestyles? Lets toss those lazy stupid bastards out.

How many are in the trauma center from vehicle accidents recovery from hitting a tree while driving drunk or high on recreational drugs? Toss em

How many are taking up beds because of trauma from drunken assaults at parties or bars? Screw them, they should have known better

Motorcycle accidents? We all know motorcycles are more dangerous than cars....toss em.

Elective surges like hip and knee replacements? Probably because they went through life at an unhealthy weight and got premature arthritis.....screw them.

Cancer patients? Likely secondary to unhealthy diets and smoking and drinking too much anyway.

I think you get my point.
There's no slippery slope right now.

Every hospital in the country pre-Covid took all of those things you mentioned into consideration when looking at number of beds, staffing, equipment, etc.

It's not about being assholes and figuring out who can be kicked to the curb, it's about supply and demand... and there's only one reason demand outweighs supply right now.


Originally Posted by jdubya:
Where do you draw the line? Who gets to play God?
Doctors are already playing god.. with zero guidance beyond their best judgment.

End of the day and at 30k feet, it seems like drawing any lines, whatever that means, would be far more beneficial than what's happened the past couple of surges.

I personally don't think that means denying every single unvaccinated patient, but looking at anything beyond the status quo seems prudent.
[Reply]
Bearcat 07:57 PM 08-28-2021
And the sad thing is... out of all of those examples, there's probably people in each group who have been denied a bed or been told to checkout early, etc.

Elective surgeries have already been backlogged for over a year. There was a post about a cancer patient being checked out early because they needed the bed.

It's already happening, so there isn't even a slippery slope of "if unvaccinated people, what about..." ...the 'what about' have been significantly impacted already.
[Reply]
jdubya 08:02 PM 08-28-2021
Originally Posted by Monticore:
You think 40% of ICU beds are now filled with each of these examples not sure you know how percentage work.
I was a street medic for almost 30 years and we did rotations in hospitals at times. While I don't know exact percentages I am certain I am close. Aren't you in medical care? It's just a fact of life, people end up in the hospital very often due to poor choices. The folks with COPD overwhelmingly were smokers or folks who worked unhealthy occupations and got lung disease. People with bad hearts and diabetes are commonly folks who didn't lead healthy lifestyles. I am not saying ALL.....I am saying MANY. I am not judging....the majority of us enjoy rich food and some strong drink....some more than others and its OK.....its all about life choices. My point is, if one is going to cut care because they chose not to get a vaccine, then that should open the gates for all others taking up beds due to poor choices.

Pandoras box anyone?
[Reply]
Monticore 08:18 PM 08-28-2021
Originally Posted by jdubya:
I was a street medic for almost 30 years and we did rotations in hospitals at times. While I don't know exact percentages I am certain I am close. Aren't you in medical care? It's just a fact of life, people end up in the hospital very often due to poor choices. The folks with COPD overwhelmingly were smokers or folks who worked unhealthy occupations and got lung disease. People with bad hearts and diabetes are commonly folks who didn't lead healthy lifestyles. I am not saying ALL.....I am saying MANY. I am not judging....the majority of us enjoy rich food and some strong drink....some more than others and its OK.....its all about life choices. My point is, if one is going to cut care because they chose not to get a vaccine, then that should open the gates for all others taking up beds due to poor choices.

Pandoras box anyone?
So at one point in its history Mississippi had almost 60% of their ICU beds filled with motorcycle accidents at one time?
[Reply]
Monticore 08:30 PM 08-28-2021
Originally Posted by jdubya:
I was a street medic for almost 30 years and we did rotations in hospitals at times. While I don't know exact percentages I am certain I am close. Aren't you in medical care? It's just a fact of life, people end up in the hospital very often due to poor choices. The folks with COPD overwhelmingly were smokers or folks who worked unhealthy occupations and got lung disease. People with bad hearts and diabetes are commonly folks who didn't lead healthy lifestyles. I am not saying ALL.....I am saying MANY. I am not judging....the majority of us enjoy rich food and some strong drink....some more than others and its OK.....its all about life choices. My point is, if one is going to cut care because they chose not to get a vaccine, then that should open the gates for all others taking up beds due to poor choices.

Pandoras box anyone?
I agree most of what we deal with is self induced to some extent , if smokers had an option to take a vaccine that reduce their risk of severe illness and death and be able to continue to smoke I assume most would consider it and I assume medical professionals would be pushing it especially if the medical system wasn’t already built to accommodate them.
[Reply]
jdubya 09:38 PM 08-28-2021
Originally Posted by Monticore:
So at one point in its history Mississippi had almost 60% of their ICU beds filled with motorcycle accidents at one time?
We are not in DC where I would expect this response but good Lord man...this is significantly unintelligent. That is what you think I was trying to say? Really?
[Reply]
jdubya 09:40 PM 08-28-2021
Originally Posted by Monticore:
I agree most of what we deal with is self induced to some extent , if smokers had an option to take a vaccine that reduce their risk of severe illness and death and be able to continue to smoke I assume most would consider it and I assume medical professionals would be pushing it especially if the medical system wasn’t already built to accommodate them.
This is a cool "what if" that has nothing to do with reality.

If you are a fan of punishing unstable covid patients because they weren't vaccinated, fine.
[Reply]
Monticore 09:44 PM 08-28-2021
Originally Posted by jdubya:
This is a cool "what if" that has nothing to do with reality.

If you are a fan of punishing unstable covid patients because they weren't vaccinated, fine.
I don’t agree with doing that but you can still put some of the blame for this situation on them.
[Reply]
carlos3652 10:07 PM 08-28-2021
Originally Posted by Monticore:
I don’t agree with doing that but you can still put some of the blame for this situation on them.
The blame game has multiple layers.

Hospitals trusted to budget / plan based on the data they were provided. In March they were told vaccinated people would not get sick or transmit the virus. They were also basing it on the RO of 2.5 / 4 that the original strain / alpha had.

Here comes delta and screwed everyone.

Vaccines don’t stop transmission (thankfully they curve serious illness)
R0 of 8 comes along sweeping up what didn’t get sick in the past 12 months
Staffing Burnt out
Staffing Fired due to mandates

The influx is the same as it was last summer, they had a backlog of people that were put on a waiting list for selective surgery.

It’s a combination of things - there is plenty of blame to go around.

Science changes, data changes… and we acted like the vaccines would be a magical bullet. It was sold that way all the way to the President (not political as it didn’t matter who the prez was) and that messaging killed us.
[Reply]
Fat Elvis 08-28-2021, 10:09 PM
This message has been deleted by Fat Elvis. Reason: nevermind
Page 3701 of 3903
« First < 2701320136013651369136973698369937003701 3702370337043705371137513801 > Last »
Up