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Saccopoo Memorial Draft Forum>DT Thread
RunKC 11:42 AM 02-07-2024
This is a pretty solid DT class with some talent we could use.

JeríZhan Newton
Byron Murphy
T'Vondre Sweat
Maason Smith
Kris Jenkins
Michael Hall Jr
Leonard Taylor
Brandon Fiske
Darius Robinson

Which ones do you think fit us most?
[Reply]
kccrow 04:15 PM 03-24-2024
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
The only thing about going Sweat in the second is that I don't see them waiting to the third to address WR.

A year from now, you have Rice under contract and a 36 year old Travis Kelce. And that's it.

If they go like Morgan at OT, they kind of need to go WR at #64. If they're flexible as to the TYPE of WR, there should be several good options. If they want a specific skillset, they're going to have to do it at #32.
The same can be said at DT when you have Chris Jones and that's it because Veach hasn't addressed DT in years. That said, I think it's a bit cheaper to go to the FA well for DTs. You can always do the "bring in as many cheap, relatively shitty guys as we can and see what happens" route that Veach has employed once again this year. At some point though, he should draft a DT.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 04:31 PM 03-24-2024
Originally Posted by kccrow:
The same can be said at DT when you have Chris Jones and that's it because Veach hasn't addressed DT in years. That said, I think it's a bit cheaper to go to the FA well for DTs. You can always do the "bring in as many cheap, relatively shitty guys as we can and see what happens" route that Veach has employed once again this year. At some point though, he should draft a DT.
I don't disagree, except that we're really talking about a depth guy at 3t, and a two down 1t.

Versus someone for Mahomes to throw the ball to.
[Reply]
Nightfyre 04:39 PM 03-24-2024
Originally Posted by kccrow:
The same can be said at DT when you have Chris Jones and that's it because Veach hasn't addressed DT in years. That said, I think it's a bit cheaper to go to the FA well for DTs. You can always do the "bring in as many cheap, relatively shitty guys as we can and see what happens" route that Veach has employed once again this year. At some point though, he should draft a DT.
I agree with this conceptually, and how the Chiefs employ it.
I would think/hope that there is some universe of resources where the Chiefs convert everything to a common unit:

Veteran league minimum or whatever% of the salary cap is worth X of made up unit (We can reference them as Chiefsbux going forward.).
Pick 17 is worth Y Chiefsbux.

Now that picks and salary cap allocations are all now quantified in Chiefsbux, you can use that to evaluate value per production at a given position.

Then employed as follows:
We can get unsatisfactory/satisfactory/strong production for 1.25 Chiefsbux. We value on this type of production as being worth 3 Chiefsbux, so our value per unit of production is net +1.75 Chiefsbux.

It's contrived, but I think it would be helpful as a secondary measure of production vs. resources:
We expect a net Chiefsbux return of +1.5/player or 150%/player at WR. Therefore, MVS producing 1.5 Chiefsbux in value versus 3.0 Chiefsbux cost is -1.5 or 50% and we are going to trigger a review of him as a cut candidate.
[Reply]
kccrow 05:12 PM 03-24-2024
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
I don't disagree, except that we're really talking about a depth guy at 3t, and a two down 1t.

Versus someone for Mahomes to throw the ball to.
We're also talking about the 3rd WR and 4th option for him to throw the ball to. We can't overqualify one while underqualifying the other.

Do I think we should go WR before DT? Yes. Would I under any circumstance? No. For example, if Ruke Ororohoro is sitting there at 64, then there better be one hell of a WR option sitting there or I'd wait until Round 3 because I think this year will have good options there.

It's all relative. The only pressing need right now is LT, until Veach does something about that in the coming days.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 05:46 PM 03-24-2024
Originally Posted by kccrow:
We're also talking about the 3rd WR and 4th option for him to throw the ball to. We can't overqualify one while underqualifying the other.

Do I think we should go WR before DT? Yes. Would I under any circumstance? No. For example, if Ruke Ororohoro is sitting there at 64, then there better be one hell of a WR option sitting there or I'd wait until Round 3 because I think this year will have good options there.

It's all relative. The only pressing need right now is LT, until Veach does something about that in the coming days.
That's not quite accurate. At least not for anything after 2024. There's a Rice, and...Skyy Moore. That's what would be under contract in '25.

I don't know that Kelce at 36 should be considered a WR at all, much less WR1 or 2, and that's assuming he doesn't call it a career should they threepeat. I mean, that is a very real possibility, especially with his brother calling it.

Ororohoro is an interesting prospect, for sure, but what role does he play in a Chris Jones led defensive front? He's a 3 tech. So, he spells Jones when Jones needs a breather, and he plays some passing downs if you want to move Jones out to DE? I don't see him as a run down 1T. Given how much we just paid Jones, I don't think that's a great value pick. Had we NOT signed Jones, I'd be with you.

And please don't take any snark in my response; we're just talking theoretics.

Of course, now that I've said all of that, Veach will go all in on DL in this draft. LOL
[Reply]
kcbubb 06:31 PM 03-24-2024
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
The only thing about going Sweat in the second is that I don't see them waiting to the third to address WR.

A year from now, you have Rice under contract and a 36 year old Travis Kelce. And that's it.

If they go like Morgan at OT, they kind of need to go WR at #64. If they're flexible as to the TYPE of WR, there should be several good options. If they want a specific skillset, they're going to have to do it at #32.
I could see the chiefs waiting until the 4th or 5th to pick a wr. I could see a scenario where they trade their 2nd this year and a 3rd next year to move up for a LT if one of the top guys falls. And I could easily see them picking another position other than WR in the third.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 06:47 PM 03-24-2024
Originally Posted by kcbubb:
I could see the chiefs waiting until the 4th or 5th to pick a wr. I could see a scenario where they trade their 2nd this year and a 3rd next year to move up for a LT if one of the top guys falls. And I could easily see them picking another position other than WR in the third.
Anything is possible, but Veach has tended to bludgeon weak spots in the past with dramatic overhauls. So Brown would be the only addition that you could expect an improvement. And he's on a one year deal.
[Reply]
kcbubb 07:11 PM 03-24-2024
Rice and Hollywood are wr1 and 2. and we have Kelce, I get it, he’s aging. We don’t have a competent LT. That’s clearly the biggest need. And this is a deep wr class. Rice, McMillan and Baker are typically around WR 20 in rankings and if that’s close, one of those might be available in the 4th. I also like Gould as a punt returner and slot wr in the 5th. And I haven’t checked out means or Cornelius Johnson but they are big and fast with some production. Long story short, we don’t have to have another wr to run it back. The group we have for 2024 will be better than 2023; already is. And if another person is better than a wr, take that guy. Plus the wr draft is DEEP. We can get talent in the 4th or maybe even later. We just need a little luck.

BUB MEANS WR PITTSBURGH | NFL DRAFT PROFILE & SCOUTING REPORT

ROLE: OUTSIDE X-RECEIVER
LAST UPDATED: 03/13/2024
DRAFT YEAR: 2024
40 TIME: 4.43 SECONDS (76%*)
BOWL INVITE: SHRINE BOWL
MEASURABLES:
HEIGHT: 6-1 (52%*) WEIGHT: 212 (76%*)
HANDS: 10 1/8 (81%*) ARM: 33 1/4 (75%*) SPAN: 80 2/8 (90%*)
FORTY: 4.43 (C) (76%*) TEN YARD: 1.55 (C) (61%*)
VERTICAL: 39.5 (C) (91%*) BROAD: 122 (C) (57%*)
BENCH: 19 (C) (85%*)

CORNELIUS JOHNSON WR MICHIGAN
NFL DRAFT PROFILE & SCOUTING REPORT

ROLE: OUTSIDE X-RECEIVER
LAST UPDATED: 03/13/2024
DRAFT YEAR: 2024
40 TIME: 4.44 SECONDS (73%*)
AGE: 23.3 DOB: 11/29/2000
BOWL INVITE: SHRINE BOWL
MEASURABLES:
HEIGHT: 6-3 (79%*) WEIGHT: 212 (76%*)
HANDS: 8 5/8 (17%*) ARM: 31 7/8 (49%*)
SPAN: 76 7/8 (56%*)
FORTY: 4.44 (C) (73%*)
10 YARD: 1.55 (C) (61%*)
VERTICAL: 37.5 (C) (75%*) BROAD: 127 (C) (85%*)

Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
Anything is possible, but Veach has tended to bludgeon weak spots in the past with dramatic overhauls. So Brown would be the only addition that you could expect an improvement. And he's on a one year deal.

[Reply]
Chris Meck 08:59 PM 03-24-2024
Originally Posted by kcbubb:
Rice and Hollywood are wr1 and 2. and we have Kelce, I get it, heís aging. We donít have a competent LT. Thatís clearly the biggest need. And this is a deep wr class. Rice, McMillan and Baker are typically around WR 20 in rankings and if thatís close, one of those might be available in the 4th. I also like Gould as a punt returner and slot wr in the 5th. And I havenít checked out means or Cornelius Johnson but they are big and fast with some production. Long story short, we donít have to have another wr to run it back. The group we have for 2024 will be better than 2023; already is. And if another person is better than a wr, take that guy. Plus the wr draft is DEEP. We can get talent in the 4th or maybe even later. We just need a little luck.

BUB MEANS WR PITTSBURGH | NFL DRAFT PROFILE & SCOUTING REPORT

ROLE: OUTSIDE X-RECEIVER
LAST UPDATED: 03/13/2024
DRAFT YEAR: 2024
40 TIME: 4.43 SECONDS (76%*)
BOWL INVITE: SHRINE BOWL
MEASURABLES:
HEIGHT: 6-1 (52%*) WEIGHT: 212 (76%*)
HANDS: 10 1/8 (81%*) ARM: 33 1/4 (75%*) SPAN: 80 2/8 (90%*)
FORTY: 4.43 (C) (76%*) TEN YARD: 1.55 (C) (61%*)
VERTICAL: 39.5 (C) (91%*) BROAD: 122 (C) (57%*)
BENCH: 19 (C) (85%*)

CORNELIUS JOHNSON WR MICHIGAN
NFL DRAFT PROFILE & SCOUTING REPORT

ROLE: OUTSIDE X-RECEIVER
LAST UPDATED: 03/13/2024
DRAFT YEAR: 2024
40 TIME: 4.44 SECONDS (73%*)
AGE: 23.3 DOB: 11/29/2000
BOWL INVITE: SHRINE BOWL
MEASURABLES:
HEIGHT: 6-3 (79%*) WEIGHT: 212 (76%*)
HANDS: 8 5/8 (17%*) ARM: 31 7/8 (49%*)
SPAN: 76 7/8 (56%*)
FORTY: 4.44 (C) (73%*)
10 YARD: 1.55 (C) (61%*)
VERTICAL: 37.5 (C) (75%*) BROAD: 127 (C) (85%*)
Hey, I like lots of these kids, and I wouldn't be surprised if they take two, but I would personally be surprised if they haven't taken one by pick #65.

It's one of those drafts where the meat of the draft fits our needs perfectly, and I can't see not taking advantage of that.

But, as I've said, every time I try to guess what Veach is going to do, I'm wrong, lol, so we'll see. I didn't think he valued CB's-and he took Mcduffie. I didn't think he'd take a RB in the first, and he took Clyde. (oops). I thought he might re-sign Sneed, but let Jones walk.

So anyone that feels like they've got the plan figured out in advance, I'd love to hear it and compare notes after.

I'd just say that for me, If a Guyton or Morgan is there at #32, I'm taking them, and I'm taking the best WR on the board at #64 unless that's just terrible value, but I don't think that's going to be the case. I doubt ALL of the guys rated in there are going to be gone.

and I'm probably not looking DT until possibly late.

But I have no idea what Veach will do. But it'll probably work out better than my plan.
[Reply]
kcbubb 10:17 PM 03-24-2024
Agreed. Hard to guess what beach will do. Iíd differ on the meat of the draft. Getting a LT around 20-25 seems like a great value for the talent thatís available and our need of a LT. If we have to wait until the third round or later for a WR, so be it. This seems like the right time to find a LTOTF.

Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
Hey, I like lots of these kids, and I wouldn't be surprised if they take two, but I would personally be surprised if they haven't taken one by pick #65.

It's one of those drafts where the meat of the draft fits our needs perfectly, and I can't see not taking advantage of that.

But, as I've said, every time I try to guess what Veach is going to do, I'm wrong, lol, so we'll see. I didn't think he valued CB's-and he took Mcduffie. I didn't think he'd take a RB in the first, and he took Clyde. (oops). I thought he might re-sign Sneed, but let Jones walk.

So anyone that feels like they've got the plan figured out in advance, I'd love to hear it and compare notes after.

I'd just say that for me, If a Guyton or Morgan is there at #32, I'm taking them, and I'm taking the best WR on the board at #64 unless that's just terrible value, but I don't think that's going to be the case. I doubt ALL of the guys rated in there are going to be gone.

and I'm probably not looking DT until possibly late.

But I have no idea what Veach will do. But it'll probably work out better than my plan.

[Reply]
kccrow 02:26 AM 03-25-2024
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
That's not quite accurate. At least not for anything after 2024. There's a Rice, and...Skyy Moore. That's what would be under contract in '25.

I don't know that Kelce at 36 should be considered a WR at all, much less WR1 or 2, and that's assuming he doesn't call it a career should they threepeat. I mean, that is a very real possibility, especially with his brother calling it.

Ororohoro is an interesting prospect, for sure, but what role does he play in a Chris Jones led defensive front? He's a 3 tech. So, he spells Jones when Jones needs a breather, and he plays some passing downs if you want to move Jones out to DE? I don't see him as a run down 1T. Given how much we just paid Jones, I don't think that's a great value pick. Had we NOT signed Jones, I'd be with you.

And please don't take any snark in my response; we're just talking theoretics.

Of course, now that I've said all of that, Veach will go all in on DL in this draft. LOL
We have Jones and whatever Neil Ferrell is at DT after this season. That's it. So, there's that component as well. Neither position has been well-managed in the draft to keep some influx of talent rolling through.

Given that we play a 1-gap scheme, no I don't rule out too many prospects to play NT. We can also ask a guy like Ruke to put on 15 lbs. Even if it's bad weight, he's going to be a great athlete because he's already a phenomenal one at 295.

I'm just keeping an open mind about this draft. I'm nervous about LT continuing to be an exercise in kicking the can down the road and I think this draft could present a unique opportunity to grab a guy later than normal. That pushes WR and DT down from where you'd like to see them.

Not only that, there are a few CBs I really like in this draft too that just won't come into play because of those needs.

As long as Veach stacks up some good football players, we'll be fine. I don't know that he needs to force any position, including WR. If he goes WR in 3 and 5, I'll get it. If he does it in 1, I'll get it.
[Reply]
kccrow 06:10 PM 03-26-2024
This guy has become one of my draft crushes after watching him quite a bit. I think that brotherhood from Miss St aka DT-U with Chris Jones would be something valuable as well.


[Reply]
Nightfyre 06:17 PM 03-26-2024
Originally Posted by kccrow:
This guy has become one of my draft crushes after watching him quite a bit. I think that brotherhood from Miss St aka DT-U with Chris Jones would be something valuable as well.

Nice find
[Reply]
kccrow 06:21 PM 03-26-2024
Originally Posted by Nightfyre:
Nice find
He uses that two-handed swipe that Chris is so fucking good at and he has awesome burst. All DTs need some seasoning coming into the league but I think he could have an impact early on passing downs and work his way up.
[Reply]
staylor26 05:14 PM 03-27-2024

Joe Cullen is chopping it up with Maason Smith and Mekhi Wingo at LSU pro day

— Billy M (@BillyM_91) March 27, 2024

[Reply]
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