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Lenny "The Cool" Lounge>Investing megathread extravaganza
DaFace 11:23 AM 06-27-2016
A place to talk about investing stuff.
[Reply]
lewdog 07:05 PM 06-23-2017
Originally Posted by Buehler445:
Cool man. The one I have is through NY Life. It's not through work. It's just wonky. I haven't been happy with it, figured I'd start one and see if my yields are any better before I roll it out of there. If I even can with life insurance companies weird ass products.
Yea, I am sure the ones through them aren't great funds and probably fairly expensive.

Vanguard also lets you trade their Vanguard ETFs free, as much as you want, if you have an account with them as well. This is about 55 free ETFs. Obviously, buying into their mutual funds in your ROTH is free as well.
[Reply]
Demonpenz 09:14 PM 06-23-2017
Originally Posted by lewdog:
I edited my post above after I think you saw it. Can you answer those for me? Why have another ROTH? Your total contribution for the year will be the same regardless of how many accounts you have.

My wife's ROTH IRA is through Vanguard. They have the lowest fees of any mutual fund company, plenty of options. You can buy individual stocks for $7 for the first 25 trades and I think and that rests every year (but you'll have to check that, maybe not). I have my ROTH through TRowePrice, mostly because my dad started it there for me when I was in middle school. Their fees are more but they have more specialty funds to choose from, although I've thought about moving it over to Vanguard as well due to fees being cheaper. Cheap fees for retirement planning is my preferred method of investing! My 401k through work offers some Vanguard index funds and that's where I park most of my money.

my line thinking is have a roth from work with whateber funds they do and then have the Lewdog of St joe from Edward Jones do the other roth. Hopefully if one preforms like shit the other one will preform less shitty. Also guy can direct you to the stocks with lowest fees and show you different stuffm Yeah he may be pushing shit onto me but like I said one day my gut said I need to talk to a pro and make mistakes so I can learn
[Reply]
lewdog 09:24 PM 06-23-2017
Originally Posted by Demonpenz:
my line thinking is have a roth from work with whateber funds they do and then have the Lewdog of St joe from Edward Jones do the other roth. Hopefully if one preforms like shit the other one will preform less shitty. Also guy can direct you to the stocks with lowest fees and show you different stuffm Yeah he may be pushing shit onto me but like I said one day my gut said I need to talk to a pro and make mistakes so I can learn
To each his own.

I much prefer to decide where my money is going and what I am investing in, not someone else's thought who has no stake in what happens to me. No reason people can't read about expense ratios, compare gains of 1/5/10 year spans on funds and decide where to put their money. The online charts let you sort by fees, gains, etc. It's easy to see what's been hot, cold or cheap. There's plenty of ways to passively invest and not get eaten up by fees that firms may charge you (Index funds). I don't trust Jack Schidt at Edward Jones to somehow know more than me. And if Jack Schidt provides me with little growth, on top of his fees, I am really fucking far behind the curve. Many have little training at these big investment places, especially if you are dealing with small accounts. Then again, many people have no idea how to invest, so something IS better than nothing for many I suppose.

I don't think Buehler falls into that category though.

I don't see a need for two ROTH accounts either, unless a ROTH is the only option your employer allows and the funds offered aren't that great. A 401k for work and a single ROTH IRA account on your own is a simply way to manage multiple funds and allocations.
[Reply]
Cornstock 09:33 PM 06-23-2017
Originally Posted by lewdog:
So you have a ROTH IRA already but want another one? This is a bit confusing as your total contribution limit for the year won't change by adding another one. I'd just up your contribution to your work one if that's the case, to max it out.

Vanguard probably meets what you want. Numerous, low cost funds with excellent track records.

If you are unsure or don't want to make many moves, simply buy into a target date fund and it resets your allocation (stocks/bonds) for you as you age.
Lewdog is exactly right, your contribution limit is 5500 per year (6500 if you're old enough for catch-up) combined between any IRAs you have. Vanguard is a great way to go with no cost traded for their funds (which perform great and track their indexes closer than spyder or ishares etc in most cases) with the added value of having microscopic annual overhead.

ETFs track an index on an automated level rather than having a person do it so they will have a lower expense ratio, with intraday liquidity if that is of value to you. a mutual find can only be traded at the end of the day, so if a disaster happens in the morning and you want to sell out, you have to wait until the end of the day to cash out.

If you want to be slightly more aggressive and only invested in equities rather than an equity/debt split (i.e. target date funds) you should look into one of the many S&P 500 indexes funds they offer. They all have a slightly different strategy. for example, higher dividend paying S&P stocks (vym) or growth stocks (voog, vug). Some are geared towards larger companies vs smaller companies.

Vanguard is a great way to go for the investor who is limited in the amount of research time they can put in. You can be adequately educated in only a few hours of reading the differences in the funds strategies. All the while being the least expensive option out there.

I think this is what you are looking for.

(investments may lose value, returns are not guaranteed)
[Reply]
Buehler445 10:38 PM 06-23-2017
Originally Posted by lewdog:
To each his own.

I much prefer to decide where my money is going and what I am investing in, not someone else's thought who has no stake in what happens to me. No reason people can't read about expense ratios, compare gains of 1/5/10 year spans on funds and decide where to put their money. The online charts let you sort by fees, gains, etc. It's easy to see what's been hot, cold or cheap. There's plenty of ways to passively invest and not get eaten up by fees that firms may charge you (Index funds). I don't trust Jack Schidt at Edward Jones to somehow know more than me. And if Jack Schidt provides me with little growth, on top of his fees, I am really fucking far behind the curve. Many have little training at these big investment places, especially if you are dealing with small accounts. Then again, many people have no idea how to invest, so something IS better than nothing for many I suppose.

I don't think Buehler falls into that category though.

I don't see a need for two ROTH accounts either, unless a ROTH is the only option your employer allows and the funds offered aren't that great. A 401k for work and a single ROTH IRA account on your own is a simply way to manage multiple funds and allocations.
The Roth I have isn't what you think it is. I just rolled my Cabela's 401 into it and haven't really messed with it since. It's not like I'm going to be splitting contributions between the two. I just needed to get it rolled and I figured I'd see what this guy could do for me. Now I'm trying to do better. And that's the other side of it. I want to make sure my self directed stuff will outperform it. If not I just as well not mess with it.
[Reply]
Buehler445 10:46 PM 06-23-2017
Originally Posted by Cornstock:
Lewdog is exactly right, your contribution limit is 5500 per year (6500 if you're old enough for catch-up) combined between any IRAs you have. Vanguard is a great way to go with no cost traded for their funds (which perform great and track their indexes closer than spyder or ishares etc in most cases) with the added value of having microscopic annual overhead.

ETFs track an index on an automated level rather than having a person do it so they will have a lower expense ratio, with intraday liquidity if that is of value to you. a mutual find can only be traded at the end of the day, so if a disaster happens in the morning and you want to sell out, you have to wait until the end of the day to cash out.

If you want to be slightly more aggressive and only invested in equities rather than an equity/debt split (i.e. target date funds) you should look into one of the many S&P 500 indexes funds they offer. They all have a slightly different strategy. for example, higher dividend paying S&P stocks (vym) or growth stocks (voog, vug). Some are geared towards larger companies vs smaller companies.

Vanguard is a great way to go for the investor who is limited in the amount of research time they can put in. You can be adequately educated in only a few hours of reading the differences in the funds strategies. All the while being the least expensive option out there.

I think this is what you are looking for.

(investments may lose value, returns are not guaranteed)
That is what I'm looking for. Thanks.

LOL @ your disclaimer. I'm not the guy you need to stick that in there for.

As an aside Art Barnaby with KState put on this workshop of how to use options with MPCI as an active hedge. It's a pretty sound strategy. I don't use it but the logic and the math works. So he sticks his slideshow up there and on the first slide in giant letters is "Do not use this program if you have not lost money trading options".

Not have traded options, understand options, understand risk and capitalization, are understand the purpose of a hedge, are prepared for margin calls, none of that stuff. You have to have lost money. Made me chuckle.
[Reply]
lewdog 12:28 PM 06-24-2017
Originally Posted by Cornstock:
Lewdog is exactly right, your contribution limit is 5500 per year (6500 if you're old enough for catch-up) combined between any IRAs you have. Vanguard is a great way to go with no cost traded for their funds (which perform great and track their indexes closer than spyder or ishares etc in most cases) with the added value of having microscopic annual overhead.

ETFs track an index on an automated level rather than having a person do it so they will have a lower expense ratio, with intraday liquidity if that is of value to you. a mutual find can only be traded at the end of the day, so if a disaster happens in the morning and you want to sell out, you have to wait until the end of the day to cash out.

If you want to be slightly more aggressive and only invested in equities rather than an equity/debt split (i.e. target date funds) you should look into one of the many S&P 500 indexes funds they offer. They all have a slightly different strategy. for example, higher dividend paying S&P stocks (vym) or growth stocks (voog, vug). Some are geared towards larger companies vs smaller companies.

Vanguard is a great way to go for the investor who is limited in the amount of research time they can put in. You can be adequately educated in only a few hours of reading the differences in the funds strategies. All the while being the least expensive option out there.

I think this is what you are looking for.

(investments may lose value, returns are not guaranteed)
This is exactly what I was trying to say about Vanguard, but couldn't write as well as this.

Great post.
[Reply]
lewdog 12:28 PM 06-24-2017
Originally Posted by Demonpenz:
my line thinking is have a roth from work with whateber funds they do and then have the Lewdog of St joe from Edward Jones do the other roth. Hopefully if one preforms like shit the other one will preform less shitty. Also guy can direct you to the stocks with lowest fees and show you different stuffm Yeah he may be pushing shit onto me but like I said one day my gut said I need to talk to a pro and make mistakes so I can learn
And I don't want to shit on someone asking for help.

Do you mind sharing what they recommended to you?
[Reply]
Demonpenz 04:46 PM 06-24-2017
no problem i am in the game to make mistakes. American funds is what it is called.
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Demonpenz 04:48 PM 06-24-2017
I stopped contributing through my work ira and just going with ira through ed jones still have a 401k through work.
[Reply]
lewdog 04:56 PM 06-24-2017
Originally Posted by Demonpenz:
no problem i am in the game to make mistakes. American funds is what it is called.
What funds did they recommend from them? Looking at some of their initial funds, they have load fees. That's usually not a good sign considering so many offer no load funds. You're just wasting money on that, unless the gains are substantial. With actively managed funds with load fees, generally that's not the case.
[Reply]
Demonpenz 08:35 PM 06-24-2017
Originally Posted by lewdog:
What funds did they recommend from them? Looking at some of their initial funds, they have load fees. That's usually not a good sign considering so many offer no load funds. You're just wasting money on that, unless the gains are substantial. With actively managed funds with load fees, generally that's not the case.
I don't have my info handy but I will get it when I can.
[Reply]
Demonpenz 08:37 PM 06-24-2017
Well there you go A load fund is a mutual fund that comes with a sales charge or commission. The fund investor pays the load, which goes to compensate a sales intermediary, such as a broker, financial planner or investment advisor, for his time and expertise in selecting an appropriate fund for the investor. Learned something new everyday
[Reply]
Demonpenz 08:43 PM 06-24-2017
Also to me money is never wasted. Other people have to eat as well.
[Reply]
Demonpenz 11:48 AM 06-25-2017
CAP INC BUL A (CAIBX)
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