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Nzoner's Game Room>Loss is on Veach
wbbonneriii 06:39 PM 12-04-2022
He had every opportunity to upgrade both lines during the offseason and trade deadline and didn’t add anything that makes a real difference. Could have had Suh and others but nope…
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staylor26 10:32 AM 12-06-2022
Originally Posted by O.city:
Here's the thing though....when you play other elite QB's, you kind of get into coin flip games.

We lost two coin flips. Shit happens. But that's life in the NFL. Beat the bad teams, try and split with the good teams. You just aren't gonna blow thru a season.

People don't like to hear it, but even in the 2 losses, the defense gave up 27 and 24 points. We're an offensive team, it's the way they're built. Go win those games by scoring more than 20 and 24 points.
Yea, you would think the Bills and Bengals at least dropped 30+ on us.
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RunKC 10:33 AM 12-06-2022
Originally Posted by TEX:
Nothing disingenuous about it. I'm not saying he didn't address it. I'm simply saying that he didn't address it enough. And he didn't...Drafting a guy 29th and then waiting till right before the season to sign Dunlap was not enough imo...Does it seem like it was enough to you? :-)
What exactly do you want them to do? Use a first rd pick? Okay we did.

Sign a big free agent? They looked at Z’Darius Smith but at the time we’re going through the Tyreek debacle and ended up not being able to bc they thought the money was going to Tyreek.

And the year before our entire fucking OL was brutally injured. Osemele and Schwartz’s careers were over and Fisher is a shell of who he was. He had no choice but to focus on the OL especially after the SB loss.

Life is harder when you have a Mahomes contract on the books. Seriously you guys need to shut the fuck up. The Chiefs don’t have a ton of cash and high drafted talent like the Bengals. The Bengals and Bills will soon be right where we are when they start paying big money to their stars.

The league was designed this way
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RaidersOftheCellar 10:34 AM 12-06-2022
Originally Posted by RunKC:
The funny thing is Mahomes, Kelce and Jones all played poorly in Cincy and the rest of the roster kept us in the game :-)
Mahomes played poorly? What?
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O.city 10:34 AM 12-06-2022
Originally Posted by staylor26:
Yea, you would think the Bills and Bengals at least dropped 30+ on us.
The Bills game, IMO, the defense was plenty good. They played well enough. The Bengals game they didn't but shit happens, is what it is. Still, they kept the offense in the game long enough and got it to half time 14-10.

Then got the ball to the offense in the fourth quarter with a 24-20 lead.

The offense has the horses on it and Pat wants all the smoke for the "Goat" stuff. Well, go win the fucking game.
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staylor26 10:36 AM 12-06-2022
All of the edge rushers in free agency were old, high injury risk, and expensive.

In hindsight, Smith was the one guy that would've made sense, and he was coming off a back injury at over 30 years old.

If anything, the Chiefs should've doubled down and taken Williams in the 2nd, but to pretend that would fix the DL THIS year is just silly.
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tredadda 10:36 AM 12-06-2022
Originally Posted by TEX:
Nothing disingenuous about it. I'm not saying he didn't address it. I'm simply saying that he didn't address it enough. And he didn't...Drafting a guy 29th and then waiting till right before the season to sign Dunlap was not enough imo...Does it seem like it was enough to you? :-)
It wasn’t, and I agree that he could have done more but to imply he neglected it doesn’t sit right with me. Again from what I am led to believe he tried to sign Z’Darius Smith and tried to get Burns and Allen at the trade deadline. That is something right there. Now if he brings no one in this offseason then that would be bad.
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RaidersOftheCellar 10:38 AM 12-06-2022
Originally Posted by O.city:
Here's the thing though....when you play other elite QB's, you kind of get into coin flip games.

We lost two coin flips. Shit happens. But that's life in the NFL. Beat the bad teams, try and split with the good teams. You just aren't gonna blow thru a season.

People don't like to hear it, but even in the 2 losses, the defense gave up 27 and 24 points. We're an offensive team, it's the way they're built. Go win those games by scoring more than 20 and 24 points.
27 points in 7 possessions. That's not good. Teams usually have 10-12 possessions. Plus, if they'd needed to score on the last drive, they would have. They also dropped a wide open TD. Their only punt happened after they were backed up 10 yds due to a penalty. And if Dunlap doesn't make the play on 4th, it would've gotten REALLY ugly.

The defense got torched all day. Period.
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MahomesMagic 10:39 AM 12-06-2022
Originally Posted by staylor26:
All of the edge rushers in free agency were old, high injury risk, and expensive.

In hindsight, Smith was the one guy that would've made sense, and he was coming off a back injury at over 30 years old.

If anything, the Chiefs should've doubled down and taken Williams in the 2nd, but to pretend that would fix the DL THIS year is just silly.
I don't care if someone is old if they are cheap.

Old is a problem when you give a huge $$$$$contract to.
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staylor26 10:40 AM 12-06-2022
Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar:
27 points in 7 possessions. That's not good. Teams usually have 10-12 possessions. Plus, if they'd needed to score on the last drive, they would have. They also dropped a wide open TD. Their only punt happened after they were backed up 10 yds due to a penalty. And if Dunlap doesn't make the play on 4th, it would've gotten REALLY ugly.

The defense got torched all day. Period.
But what you aren't understanding is that even the best defenses have games like that against elite QBs.

The 49ers got "torched all day" agaisnt us in their house.

The Cowboys got torched by the fucking Packers of all teams this year.

Burrow, Chase, and Higgins are REALLY fucking good.
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O.city 10:41 AM 12-06-2022
Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar:
27 points in 7 possessions. That's not good. Teams usually have 10-12 possessions. Plus, if they'd needed to score on the last drive, they would have. They also dropped a wide open TD. Their only punt happened after they were backed up 10 yds due to a penalty. And if Dunlap doesn't make the play on 4th, it would've gotten REALLY ugly.

The defense got torched all day. Period.
The issue was the time. They got ran on, then the Chiefs ran it well and it just shortened the game. Makes the variance more of an issue for sure.

But again, all that said, they got the Chiefs offense the ball with a 24-20 lead in the fourth quarter. Against other elite offenses, that's what you want.
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O.city 10:43 AM 12-06-2022
The run defense and getting beat over the middle early was upsetting, but a few big third down conversions and such where the defender is there and a play just gets made....it's hard to get upset about. Shit happens.

Again, we (rightfully) don't want to give him a hard time or the offense a hard time because of what they've done and normally do. But that's where the money is paid. More money paid, means less money available for "help" at other spots.

Is it unfair to ask them to be that every game? Sure, maybe I guess. But unless you play to your contract, it's just a net negative.
Same goes for Jones etc on the defense.
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staylor26 10:47 AM 12-06-2022
Originally Posted by O.city:
The issue was the time. They got ran on, then the Chiefs ran it well and it just shortened the game. Makes the variance more of an issue for sure.

But again, all that said, they got the Chiefs offense the ball with a 24-20 lead in the fourth quarter. Against other elite offenses, that's what you want.
EXACTLY
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JPH83 10:48 AM 12-06-2022
Originally Posted by tredadda:
Good grief. He doesn’t spend a first rounder on a DE people complain. He spends one on a DE and he’s not Myles Garrett after 12 games and people complain. I get it, but if you are unhappy what would you have done differently?
I'm not complaining about anything. Not every disagreement has to be blown up into hand-wringing or fury. I've mentioned plenty of times and in plenty of ways the things Veach has done I really like and the smaller number of things I don't or at least find a head-scratcher. Nor do I think I'd do a better job than Veach or know more than him, which is the other argument that gets rolled out.

I've said before I've absolutely no issue with the Karlaftis pick, I liked him, and I still think he will be a good player. He just hasn't been this year. And that's noticeable because outside of Jones neither has anyone else on our DL. I'd not have drafted Cook and gone with someone like Travis Jones, I'd then probably have gone for DE again later on and someone like Enagbare. I'd also have spent the money on Ingram. Would it have made a difference? Probably not, which is why I'd be a terrible GM.

The ONLY point I'm making, which is obvious to everyone, is our DL is pants.
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O.city 10:51 AM 12-06-2022
I don't even think it's really a "personnel" problem as much as it is they make stupid mistakes against good teams and can't make up for it.

Against the Bills and the Bengals this year, you have 2 turnovers that have come from your best players trying to do to much. Pat throws an INT in the redzone on 3rd down, Kelce fumbles at the 50.

Against other good teams, those little mistakes matter and are magnified.
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staylor26 10:53 AM 12-06-2022
Originally Posted by O.city:
I don't even think it's really a "personnel" problem as much as it is they make stupid mistakes against good teams and can't make up for it.

Against the Bills and the Bengals this year, you have 2 turnovers that have come from your best players trying to do to much. Pat throws an INT in the redzone on 3rd down, Kelce fumbles at the 50.

Against other good teams, those little mistakes matter and are magnified.
But it's just so much easier to put blame on a guy that wasn't playing or even coaching like Veach, than to just acknowledge that Pat and Travis weren't good enough.
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