Originally Posted by Rausch:
We're winning the SB this year. Deep down most of us here understand that. Most people around the country understand that.
It's boring to just say over and over but it's true. Unless there are freak injuries you're looking at the inevitable SB Champs once again.
I sure would love to dominate a few opponents though on the way to the dance. Instead of relying on Pat to bring us back I'd like to watch him put on a clinic and remove all hope before the end of the 3rd quarter.
We don't need DHop to win the SB. But it sure would help to do it my way...
I'd like to see him in the SB on two good legs for a change. Is that so wrong?
You know, the more I think about it, the more ridiculous your arguments are. You just keep pivoting, and distorting truths, and just trying to argue from a position of bad faith.
A few weeks ago, it was that our LB room was 'thin' and we hadn't invested enough in it. Despite two seconds, a third, and signing Tranquill. It's clearly a strength, but let's pivot away after being exposed for a stupid argument.
Then it's that we haven't invested in the WR room. Then it's that we didn't invest soon enough. Now it's that we've invested in 'left-overs' that won't be anything other than 'decent'. It's 'contentment'. It's nonsense, is what it is.
And spent a 'bunch' of third rounds picks that is actually TWO, one of which hasn't even hit training camp yet, but you call a bust, and added an ascending young player in Taylor, but we haven't invested in the OT position enough for you. What a bunch of dumb.
And finally, it's that we've invested too much in CB and DE, despite having clear needs there. So now, it's that you'd rather have a dominant offense than a dominant defense-despite the fact that we had literally the first ranked offense in football a year ago. You'd rather be...what, more one-ish? And have a lesser defense, too? ****ing nonsense.
And yet, you're mostly fine with the team's moves.
All of your arguments only make sense if you have zero context, don't understand football, and take no account of the state of the overall team or salary cap implications. In other words, it's all a load of hooey.
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
There's so much here that's false, it's difficult to know where to start. Let's start with your draft analysis.
We spent the higher#1 on a CB because he was by far the highest player left on their board. And it was a position of need. You don't REACH for a position when you have a clearly superior player at another position of need within reach. Good corners are also super expensive. And so are pass rushers; so Furious George is also a wise investment, when they didn't have a WR they rated as worth that pick. There was a grouping of WR's in the 2nd, and they got one there. As I've shown you repeatedly, like 6 of the top ten WR's in football in '22 came from rounds 2-4. 3 were first rounders. Were those guys leftovers, too? Or just when KC takes one in the second?
We have 3 WR's drafted in rounds one or two on rookie deals. That's a significant investment. That's not being content. That's being agggressive with the position group. Just as spending two #1s is being aggressive with the DE/pass rusher group.
This offense was the most dominant in football by any statistical measure in '22. Literally first. First in yards, scoring, explosive plays. In '23, there is no reason to believe it will not be at LEAST as good. And the defense should be BETTER, and as I would think the play-offs and Super Bowl would tell you, it does in fact take all three phases to win championships.
Our chief rivals, Buffalo is now paying the piper and Cinci will do so next year, and they'll have to make hard decisions. They've been on borrowed time and they STILL didn't get it done. Don't compare? Why? It's literally a league of competition. Of course you compare. You just don't WANT to, because it shoots your argument full of holes.
Your entire premise is poorly reasoned.
So you’re saying DE and CB were needs. That we should draft high because they’re too expensive to get. These are the same arguments you can make for WR. You make the case over and over again that WR gets deprioritized much as you want to suggest we’re investing in it. We are trying to fill our defensive spots with our best resources while filling our WR room with a lot of value picks. You’ve just proved my point.
And I am fine with approaching it this way. But I also know you’ll swing and miss at times and that this much uncertainty won’t just fall into place neatly. I also don’t agree with the fallback that this offense is anywhere near its potential. You are. You repeatedly talk about WR1 as regressive as if Reid and mahomes won’t figure out how to spread the ball around. Or the stats last year as if to ask “how can we get much better?” Or the casual attitude that we’ve succeeded if we match last years WR room. Even if we got a stud wr1 for free you are convinced it wouldn’t help much. And I think you’re dead wrong on that.
And while we’re bringing up cincy and buffalo, two things… one, even the best defenses can get worked on burrow and Allen’s best days. Balance is great but our offense needs to cook and our margin of error is thinner than we think. Sure their window is 2 years, but i am telling you this offense looks very different if kelce regresses even a little. There’s no guarantee Reid sticks around much longer either. I’ve already said we wont ho hum this wr question god forbid kelce misses any time. But more importantly while Our window will always be open with mahomes, but these next few years are the hottest it’s ever been and probably ever will be. Can we win a Super Bowl without a Wr1? Of course. We did it last year. But with a legit WR1 we are absolutely unstoppable and we cannot transition away from kelce without this being a crucial priority for us. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
So you’re saying DE and CB were needs. That we should draft high because they’re too expensive to get. These are the same arguments you can make for WR. You make the case over and over again that WR gets deprioritized much as you want to suggest we’re investing in it. We are trying to fill our defensive spots with our best resources while filling our WR room with a lot of value picks. You’ve just proved my point.
And I am fine with approaching it this way. But I also know you’ll swing and miss at times and that this much uncertainty won’t just fall into place neatly. I also don’t agree with the fallback that this offense is anywhere near its potential. You are. You repeatedly talk about WR1 as regressive as if Reid and mahomes won’t figure out how to spread the ball around. Or the stats last year as if to ask “how can we get much better?” Even if we got a stud wr1 for free you are convinced it wouldn’t help much. And I think you’re dead wrong on that.
And while we’re bringing up cincy and buffalo, two things… one, even the best defenses can get worked on burrow and Allen’s best days. Balance is great but our offense needs to cook and our margin of error is thinner than we think. Sure their window is 2 years, but i am telling you this offense looks very different if kelce regresses even a little. There’s no guarantee Reid sticks around much longer either. I’ve already said we wont ho hum this wr question god forbid kelce misses any time. But more importantly while Our window will always be open with mahomes, but these next few years are the hottest it’s ever been and probably ever will be. Can we win a Super Bowl without a Wr1? Of course. We did it last year. But with a legit WR1 we are absolutely unstoppable and we cannot transition away from kelce without this being a crucial priority for us.
WE DID YOU NUMBSKULL. WE DID. WE HAVE A FIRST ROUNDER AND TWO SECONDS IN THE LAST !5 MONTHS. ARE YOU DENSE?
Our offense needs to cook? Yeah, no shit. You mean like 'number one offense in the NFL' kind of cook? Sure, Yeah. You mean like last year? Oh no, not like that. ARE YOU DENSE?
You keep insisting that we have no WR1, and that we're not giving Mahomes premium talent, and yet despite being PROVEN wrong, you just keep tripling down on it. ONCE AGAIN, of the top 5 WR's in the NFL, one was a first round pick. Of the top ten, (depending on metrics) three. 6-7 came from rounds 2-4. You know, like Adams, and Cupp, Hill, and Diggs. Nobody's ho-humming the WR position. We have a first rounder and two second rounders picked up in the last 13 months. WHAT PLANET DO YOU LIVE ON?
Your arguments are bunk. Bullshit. Disproved over and over, and yet you keep saying them as if that will somehow make it true. Bunk. A load of hooey.
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
We won’t overspend money. That’s fine. I get the market is inflated, I’m not high on DHop either. But we also aren’t spending our top “free” picks either. We traded away our WR1 and then used our blue chip pick to trade UP for a CB… oh but then we used a 50 pick to fill the hole tyreek left. Then we took a pass rusher with our original first round pick. Then we chose not to trade up this year so we can take a pass rusher in back to back years. Where other teams are using blue chips, we are choosing to use the second wave. Whether that’s spending $ or using our best draft picks. We’re throwing a lot of lower % odds at the wall hoping one will stick. Or possibly being content if we have a room full of solid but unspectacular WRs because it worked last year with juju. I get if people are content with that. I’m not.
You can find WRs all over the draft. You can find RTs too. Its not even a question that your best % shot is to use the best possible pick to find your guy. Instead of finding a RT we chose to throw a bunch of third round picks at it and so far, it’s been a huge bust since Schwartz left. So now we’re protecting mahomes’ blind side with a 1 year bandaid. For WR, we are signficantly reducing our odds by using late second rounders. So yeah, that’s why it comes out that helping mahomes is second priority. We have every defensive position set and deep. Our two big question marks for consecutive years is at OT and WR1 and that answer still isn’t quite clear. And in those 2 years we haven’t thrown a single blue chip pick or contract to solidify it.
And don’t compare our situation to cincy or buffalo. We are in a way better cap situation than they are. We’ve been really careful and adding one extra player isn’t going to kill our payroll especially when it’s been widely acknowledged our qb is underpaid.
So again, I’m not upset with our approach. I’m mostly cool with it although I want a dominant offense more than I want a dominant defense. I don’t love the fan sugarcoating the situation. That we don’t need one because we did fine with juju. Worse, that this offense is better off without one and tyreek is proof of that. That we’ve invested in our WR room at a time when other teams are splurging on WRs and we’re basically taking the leftovers. Or that we’ve outsmarted all these teams by finding a WR1 deep in the draft other teams were too stupid to pass. Yeah this is contentment because we will be “fine” and my guess is if we match last years WR corps many will be content that that’s good enough. That’s absolutely contentment.
You want a dominant offense. I get it. We all do. And guess what? We had just that last year.
1st in yards
1st in points
MVP QB
Only team to pass for 5k yards
What else do you want? Is that not it?
As for our needs, I would argue that DL was our biggest need last year and I’m really glad they addressed it in a big way. Frank wasn’t good until late in the playoffs, Nnadi looks done and we relied a rookie and older guys like Dunlap. I love the speed and bend we added.
The WR core is largely going to come down to our draft picks. If even one of Skyy or Rice turn out to be a quality receiver, we’re good.
And I really don’t get the tackle talk. We are much better today than this time last year. Wylie was a RG turned tackle and Orlando struggled massively all year. Bringing in a stable tackle like Taylor helps us a ton. And yes Niang was a late 3rd rd pick that ultimately failed due to him being a broke dick, but that shit happens.
I REALLY like Morris. He’s got everything physically/athletically that you look for. He just needs time to round out his technique.
This team is better than last years and I think that’s gonna show. I could see a 2020 type season where we just pick on opponents bc of the strength of our team. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
You want a dominant offense. I get it. We all do. And guess what? We had just that last year.
1st in yards
1st in points
MVP QB
Only team to pass for 5k yards
What else do you want? Is that not it?
As for our needs, I would argue that DL was our biggest need last year and I’m really glad they addressed it in a big way. Frank wasn’t good until late in the playoffs, Nnadi looks done and we relied a rookie and older guys like Dunlap. I love the speed and bend we added.
The WR core is largely going to come down to our draft picks. If even one of Skyy or Rice turn out to be a quality receiver, we’re good.
And I really don’t get the tackle talk. We are much better today than this time last year. Wylie was a RG turned tackle and Orlando struggled massively all year. Bringing in a stable tackle like Taylor helps us a ton. And yes Niang was a late 3rd rd pick that ultimately failed due to him being a broke dick, but that shit happens.
I REALLY like Morris. He’s got everything physically/athletically that you look for. He just needs time to round out his technique.
This team is better than last years and I think that’s gonna show. I could see a 2020 type season where we just pick on opponents bc of the strength of our team.
I think he's dense. Is he dense? I think he's dense.
Maybe he should pivot back to how our LB corps is 'thin'. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
You know, the more I think about it, the more ridiculous your arguments are. You just keep pivoting, and distorting truths, and just trying to argue from a position of bad faith.
A few weeks ago, it was that our LB room was 'thin' and we hadn't invested enough in it. Despite two seconds, a third, and signing Tranquill. It's clearly a strength, but let's pivot away after being exposed for a stupid argument.
Then it's that we haven't invested in the WR room. Then it's that we didn't invest soon enough. Now it's that we've invested in 'left-overs' that won't be anything other than 'decent'. It's 'contentment'. It's nonsense, is what it is.
And spent a 'bunch' of third rounds picks that is actually TWO, one of which hasn't even hit training camp yet, but you call a bust, and added an ascending young player in Taylor, but we haven't invested in the OT position enough for you. What a bunch of dumb.
And finally, it's that we've invested too much in CB and DE, despite having clear needs there. So now, it's that you'd rather have a dominant offense than a dominant defense-despite the fact that we had literally the first ranked offense in football a year ago. You'd rather be...what, more one-ish? And have a lesser defense, too? ****ing nonsense.
And yet, you're mostly fine with the team's moves.
All of your arguments only make sense if you have zero context, don't understand football, and take no account of the state of the overall team or salary cap implications. In other words, it's all a load of hooey.
Go get your shinebox.
We deprioritized RT. That is not even a question. And now we are bandaiding it this year because our best option would’ve otherwise been a 3rd rounder who looks like he’ll need time. I did not say our LB room was thin. I commented that we need a pipeline of back of the draft guys who can avoid us from paying low positional value players giant contracts. We won’t pay playmakers but we want to give huge contracts to all our ILBs and interior OL? The same stingy cap guys want to sign all of them. We’ve spent 9 picks in 2 years (including 3 first rounders) on pass rusher and DB. So yeah, i still believe that our pursuit of a dominant defense has forced us to deprioritize other areas. I am mostly fine with our strategy but I feel like we are more concerned with building a complete defense before our offense is even close to set. It’s a small tweak I wish we’d do differently.
I understand football and context. Our offense was terrific last year, but they still showed a lot of limitations the second half of the season and have been 50/50 against our biggest rivals. I know that the engine that drives our efficiency will be 34 and miraculously has never missed enough time to show how crucial he is to our offense. We need WRs who can finally take the heat off kelce, and it’s crucial we find one who can help us transition from his inevitable regression. I know defenses had an offseason to adjust to us and we showed last year to be a little shaky when defenses let us open our offense up. Lastly, i know what good WRs can do for mahomes. He shouldn’t have to do magic tricks to constantly buy time in the pocket. He is more than just a catch and run efficiency guy and will be lethal with WRs who can get shit done before/during the catch. And I understand the salary cap plenty and getting some short term help isn’t going to cripple it. That is nowhere near the same territory as a team like buffalo that is desperately throwing backloaded deals at every last player. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
WE DID YOU NUMBSKULL. WE DID. WE HAVE A FIRST ROUNDER AND TWO SECONDS IN THE LAST !5 MONTHS. ARE YOU DENSE?
Our offense needs to cook? Yeah, no shit. You mean like 'number one offense in the NFL' kind of cook? Sure, Yeah. You mean like last year? Oh no, not like that. ARE YOU DENSE?
You keep insisting that we have no WR1, and that we're not giving Mahomes premium talent, and yet despite being PROVEN wrong, you just keep tripling down on it. ONCE AGAIN, of the top 5 WR's in the NFL, one was a first round pick. Of the top ten, (depending on metrics) three. 6-7 came from rounds 2-4. You know, like Adams, and Cupp, Hill, and Diggs. Nobody's ho-humming the WR position. We have a first rounder and two second rounders picked up in the last 13 months. WHAT PLANET DO YOU LIVE ON?
Your arguments are bunk. Bullshit. Disproved over and over, and yet you keep saying them as if that will somehow make it true. Bunk. A load of hooey.
Nonsense.
Go get your shinebox.
Jesus, we didn’t spend a first rounder on a WR. Stop spinning that shit. I love the move and the guy, but we spent a 3rd rounder for a WR whose value dropped because he was never healthy, which has not been disproven yet. And spending two late second rounders when the team needs five WRs, needs a WR1 and while other teams are tossing $ and picks at the guy is not some major investment in the position. Cmon now. We are easily one of the lowest resourced WR rooms in the nfl.
I didn’t say second round picks can’t be great. But for every big name that hit there are more who didn’t. Its not that it’s impossible, it’s that the odds are lower than you’re making them to be. There’s still a good chance we end this year without a legit WR1, or at least a consistently healthy one. Where you and I differ is you would be content with a WR room that levels off at last years. Of course you want better but you’d be content with it. I don’t see it that way at all. I think we’re more than fine with that but I also think we’re underestimating how high this offenses ceiling is. And if you think last years offense, because of the stat lines on paper, is anywhere near that ceiling we’re on a very different page. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
We deprioritized RT. That is not even a question. And now we are bandaiding it this year because our best option would’ve otherwise been a 3rd rounder who looks like he’ll need time.
We literally played a RG at RT the last few years. That’s deprioritizing. They tried to get Niang, who started before being broken again, but it didn’t work.
They went out and paid big bucks for a very good RT and then drafted another tackle in rd 3 that was a 5 star recruit who looks the part both athletically and physically.
What else could we have done besides draft one INT he first rd? [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
We deprioritized RT. That is not even a question. And now we are bandaiding it this year because our best option would’ve otherwise been a 3rd rounder who looks like he’ll need time. I did not say our LB room was thin. I commented that we need a pipeline of back of the draft guys who can avoid us from paying low positional value players giant contracts. We won’t pay playmakers but we want to give huge contracts to all our ILBs and interior OL? The same stingy cap guys want to sign all of them. We’ve spent 9 picks in 2 years (including 3 first rounders) on pass rusher and DB. So yeah, i still believe that our pursuit of a dominant defense has forced us to deprioritize other areas. I am mostly fine with our strategy but I feel like we are more concerned with building a complete defense before our offense is even close to set. It’s a small tweak I wish we’d do differently.
I understand football and context. Our offense was terrific last year, but they still showed a lot of limitations the second half of the season and have been 50/50 against our biggest rivals. I know that the engine that drives our efficiency will be 34 and miraculously has never missed enough time to show how crucial he is to our offense. We need WRs who can finally take the heat off kelce, and it’s crucial we find one who can help us transition from his inevitable regression. I know defenses had an offseason to adjust to us and we showed last year to be a little shaky when defenses let us open our offense up. Lastly, i know what good WRs can do for mahomes. He shouldn’t have to do magic tricks to constantly buy time in the pocket. He is more than just a catch and run efficiency guy and will be lethal with WRs who can get shit done before/during the catch. And I understand the salary cap plenty and getting some short term help isn’t going to cripple it. That is nowhere near the same territory as a team like buffalo that is desperately throwing backloaded deals at every last player.
Good gods man.
They just signed an ascending, talent at RT that will a shitload better than Wylie. They drafted a kid in the third, and they signed Smith, who when healthy is a legit starting LT. Did they prioritize other places previously? Well, yeah! Playing NFL GM is like playing whackamole. They had needs in several places, and not a lot of cap room to just go buy free agents. It's never going to be perfect.
But this team is as deep and as talented as any we've ever had.
By the way, I guess you're pivoting away from the 'content with JAGS WR' angle. Finally! That's wise.
So, on OT front, we've signed two veterans and drafted a prototypical NFL OT with experience at both sides. So I would say that we're in much better shape than last year - you know, when we won the Super Bowl.
Along with Omenihu, George, and Felix to go with Jones and the now veteran secondary this team is really good shape, and your thin LB corps is 4 deep.
This is the most balanced team on paper we've ever had. We might well be top 5 on both sides of the ball. That'll get 'er done, son! [Reply]
They just signed an ascending, talent at RT that will a shitload better than Wylie. They drafted a kid in the third, and they signed Smith, who when healthy is a legit starting LT. Did they prioritize other places previously? Well, yeah! Playing NFL GM is like playing whackamole. They had needs in several places, and not a lot of cap room to just go buy free agents. It's never going to be perfect.
But this team is as deep and as talented as any we've ever had.
By the way, I guess you're pivoting away from the 'content with JAGS WR' angle. Finally! That's wise.
So, on OT front, we've signed two veterans and drafted a prototypical NFL OT with experience at both sides. So I would say that we're in much better shape than last year - you know, when we won the Super Bowl.
Along with Omenihu, George, and Felix to go with Jones and the now veteran secondary this team is really good shape, and your thin LB corps is 4 deep.
This is the most balanced team on paper we've ever had. We might well be top 5 on both sides of the ball. That'll get 'er done, son!
Yeah, I think overall this is the best 53 the Chiefs have put together for Mahomes.
Best overall defense. By far the best back 7/pass defense.
On offense, they've got upside at the T spots and the WR group, with enough numbers it is reasonable to believe they'll improve at both.
I get that it's silly season, but the complaints are just not in phase with reality. They sound like the type of shit our rival fans try to convince themselves!
There's no way the Chiefs will be ok without Orlando Brown, Jr. and Juju Smith-Schuster! [Reply]
