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Saccopoo Memorial Draft Forum>Fix the defense (upcoming offseason version).
Direckshun 10:05 AM 10-05-2021
In the other thread, I asked that you make in-season adjustments to this current roster.

What changes are you willing to make this coming offseason to boost the defense, however?

This can include free agents, cutting our own players, letting our own free agents walk, and draft picks.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 11:03 AM 10-05-2021
Cut Clark and Hitchens (see if Hitchens will take a pay cut to come back).

Re-sign Nnadi. Re-sign Ward or Hughes; won't be able to keep them both and the rest of the season will decide who to retain. Their respective contract demands will make a difference as well.

Let every other pending FA walk. So that's Mathieu, Reed, Ward or Hughes, Sorensen, Niemann, Okafor, DoD and Watts.

As for specific moves I'd make - It's hard to say without knowing who's actually going to see FA, but a specific change in approach I would make is to just get away from big-money contracts for defensive players.

I don't want a single Frank Clark if I could have a couple of reliable veterans for the same price. What you'll really sacrifice with that approach is youth and upside, but I think they just have too many dead spaces on the roster right now and are too heavily 'stars and scrubs' already on the offense. Moreover, I think offensive productivity is more reliable and predictable so use your big money contracts on your offensive guys.

So go look for guys like Akiem Hicks, Jerry Hughes, and William Gholston in FA on shorter deals (3 years that are realistically 2 year deals you can get out of with a little discomfort after year 1 if need be).

In the secondary I'd continue to look for rehab candidates who Spags can get something out of. I'm still a fan of Ahkello Witherspoon, for instance. Kevin King has more ability than he's demonstrated in GB. Keanu Neal can be inconsistent at times but he's also been damn good at times when healthy. Sidney Jones is younger than you realize and is physical enough to excel in Spags system even though his injury out of college may have taken away his top-end athleticism.

At LB I'd see how the market develops for Jayon Brown. If it fails to come together for him again, another 2-3 year deal would be add a nice bit of athleticism. Nicholas Morrow would be a good fit as well but that's all somewhat dependent on cost. Rashaan Evans has really regressed but he's still a young veteran who's demonstrated ability in the past.

And with the draft I'd probably throw 70% of my draft capital at the defensive side of the ball with an emphasis on the DL (I could justify using 3 picks on D-Lineman) and maybe a 2nd round DB. If we went with 3 DL and a S with our first 4 picks, I wouldn't complain.

This defense needs to be detonated. And this would come with an understanding that the first 4-6 weeks will look pretty rough as everyone figures things out, but they can't just keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. Something's off with the mix here and in lieu of guessing one piece at a time (and risking being wrong), just fire the whole damn defense into the sun and start over.
[Reply]
O.city 11:35 AM 10-05-2021
Blow it up.

Let everyone walk thats a free agent, start from scratch.

They play lethargic and without energy. Get a new DC too while you're at it.
[Reply]
RunKC 11:42 AM 10-05-2021
I’m all about signing cheaper players like the Browns did with Malik Jackson, Malik McDowell and Jadeveon Clowney.

Then I’d use our first rd pick on a pass rusher, even if we have to move up to do it.
[Reply]
kccrow 05:52 PM 10-05-2021
I said it in the GDT that I really don't think Spags is the issue. He's proven he can put a winning product on the field, despite some pretty big deficiencies, but he's being asked to make chicken salad out of turkey shit this time around. There's not enough talent. It needs to get blown up, or so that seems to be the premise of the discussion. Good news! It's getting blown up regardless.

If you trade or cut Clark and also cut Hitchens, while not re-signing anyone else on the team, here's your 2022 Chiefs:

QB P. Mahomes
RB C. Edwards-Helaire
TE T. Kelce
TE N. Gray
WR T. Hill
WR M. Hardman
LG J. Thuney
OC C. Humphrey
RG T. Smith
RT L. Niang
OL N. Allegretti

K H. Butker
P T. Townsend

ER M. Danna
ER J. Kaindoh
DT C. Jones
DT K. Saunders
DT T. Wharton
LB W. Gay
LB N. Bolton
CB L. Sneed
CB R. Fenton
DB J. Thornhill

If that looks roughly 30 players short, that's because it is.

I'm absolutely, 100% in agreement that Hitchens and Clark NEED to go. I'm also in agreement that most of the current players set to be free agents NEED to go. In fact, the only player on defense I'd argue to retain is Nnadi. With Hitchens and Clark gone pre-June 1, you can get to about $50 million in cap.

Offensively, I can handle most of the cheap guys coming back with no issues and you gotta ERFA whoever you can. I think you give contracts to Fountain, Burton, Winchester, Powell, etc. Fortson is an ERFA, so keep him (I'd keep anyhow). I'd let the 2+ million guys that aren't shit walk. If they cost more than a 1.035 vet min, then question why you're keeping them.

Honestly, there isn't a choice on Orlando Brown either, unless we want to watch this team waste a 1 on a LT and yet again ignore defense early. I don't think Brown has a leg to stand on in terms of setting the market but he also has a leg to stand on when it comes to getting some real money in that deal. If I'm guessing, it's 5 for 105, so of the $50 million you have before signing anyone and cutting Hitch and Clark, he's going to probably eat $16 of it as a minimum in that first year. So, primarily, we'll see alot of the same back on offense, and that isn't a bad thing. That said, even going as cheap as you can to get to the #s you need on offense, you're going to chew up a solid 28-29 million on offense inclusive of Brown.

So that really leaves you about $18 million to spend on defense (Give or take as you will for the draft class from each pool). You're probably going to need to retain a few cheap guys that you like in roles on special teams and so forth. So who you keeping?

I said before, you gotta keep the ERFA guys, they are cheap. So add Baker, Lammons, and Harris. I'd keep Bootle and Nnadi as starting points. The market may dictate if anyone else would be on my list, but I doubt it. Maybe Hughes.

At least at this point, I have a group of CBs I can live with and hopefully add a cheap vet to (Sneed, Fenton, Baker, Bootle, Lammons) and a DT rotation that's solid with Jones, Nnadi, Wharton, and Saunders. You just need a warm body to fill that group.

Where can I get the best bang for my buck if I'm playing with roughly 8 million? Probably LB and S. The issue is I can't rely on the draft for all the ER help and trot out Danna and Kaindoh again (I'd probably want to gouge my eyes out, but they should develop more). I gotta get an ER in FA. What's the easiest position to fill in the draft with an instant player? Safety. No doubt in my mind. I'm not going to worry about safety unless I get DEALS.

So, I need to get an ER and an LB in FA. I know I can get a starting LB for 2-3 million. Maybe you get a discount on a player you have valued higher right now (e.g. Jayon Brown given his injuries, etc). There's always a vet like De'Vondre Campbell that slips through the cracks too for cheap and makes an impact. I wouldn't press the LB market just to get one. It's about finding the right one(s).

What swinging dicks can I get at ER for 5-6 million? One young guy that maybe hasn't quite ever put it all together like Derek Barnett? A mid-tier guy like Dante Fowler? Or a couple old Ryan Kerrigan/Justin Houston types? Tough call. I probably won't get a full-time player out of the old-timers. Personally, I'd hope like hell I can get Barnett for, at least, an early discount on a shorter deal and he turns the corner. The returns aren't abysmal if he stays the course though.

That really leaves the draft to focus on mostly defense. Looking at "likely reality" offensively, you might need to snag a WR, RB, and reserve OL but none are necessary in the draft, honestly.

I don't think you have to pigeonhole yourself into a DE in round 1 but if you don't take one then you best be staring at a guy like Brandon Smith or Kyle Hamilton to help you at LB or S where you need more help too. That said, this should be a good draft at DE and I think you have to take a couple.

No matter what, I'd probably not get some fancy idea that Veach can just blow things up and the defense will jump into the top 10. It's just not really possible. This team is going to take some lumps for a year or two to get the ship righted again on defense.
[Reply]
The Franchise 08:09 PM 10-05-2021
I’d love Kyle Hamilton but that kid is a top 15 pick.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 05:56 AM 10-06-2021
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Cut Clark and Hitchens (see if Hitchens will take a pay cut to come back).

Re-sign Nnadi. Re-sign Ward or Hughes; won't be able to keep them both and the rest of the season will decide who to retain. Their respective contract demands will make a difference as well.

Let every other pending FA walk. So that's Mathieu, Reed, Ward or Hughes, Sorensen, Niemann, Okafor, DoD and Watts.

As for specific moves I'd make - It's hard to say without knowing who's actually going to see FA, but a specific change in approach I would make is to just get away from big-money contracts for defensive players.

I don't want a single Frank Clark if I could have a couple of reliable veterans for the same price. What you'll really sacrifice with that approach is youth and upside, but I think they just have too many dead spaces on the roster right now and are too heavily 'stars and scrubs' already on the offense. Moreover, I think offensive productivity is more reliable and predictable so use your big money contracts on your offensive guys.

So go look for guys like Akiem Hicks, Jerry Hughes, and William Gholston in FA on shorter deals (3 years that are realistically 2 year deals you can get out of with a little discomfort after year 1 if need be).

In the secondary I'd continue to look for rehab candidates who Spags can get something out of. I'm still a fan of Ahkello Witherspoon, for instance. Kevin King has more ability than he's demonstrated in GB. Keanu Neal can be inconsistent at times but he's also been damn good at times when healthy. Sidney Jones is younger than you realize and is physical enough to excel in Spags system even though his injury out of college may have taken away his top-end athleticism.

At LB I'd see how the market develops for Jayon Brown. If it fails to come together for him again, another 2-3 year deal would be add a nice bit of athleticism. Nicholas Morrow would be a good fit as well but that's all somewhat dependent on cost. Rashaan Evans has really regressed but he's still a young veteran who's demonstrated ability in the past.

And with the draft I'd probably throw 70% of my draft capital at the defensive side of the ball with an emphasis on the DL (I could justify using 3 picks on D-Lineman) and maybe a 2nd round DB. If we went with 3 DL and a S with our first 4 picks, I wouldn't complain.

This defense needs to be detonated. And this would come with an understanding that the first 4-6 weeks will look pretty rough as everyone figures things out, but they can't just keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. Something's off with the mix here and in lieu of guessing one piece at a time (and risking being wrong), just fire the whole damn defense into the sun and start over.
Cut Clark and Hitchens for sure.
Let all FA's that aren't low salary guys walk. Guys like Watts and DOD are special teamers that aren't expensive anyway keep a few of those types. I let Mathieu walk, too. As good as he's been, he's over 30 and Thornhill needs to play. Ward walks, he'll get big money as an experienced starting corner with length.

I'd keep Hughes, he won't get big money as a smallish guy and a reclamation project with one season under his belt. He's probably miscast as an outside receiver, but should be decent in the slot. Sneed, Baker outside mostly with Fenton and Hughes in the slot is a decent start along with Bootle (?).

We'll need a box safety that's better than Sorensen. Surely that can't be too hard to find, can it?

We'll need another cover LB to pair with Gay, Bolton is your Mike.

We need two starting DE's; I'd draft one early and sign one that's being undervalued (an Ingram type from this offseason). Danna's a rotational guy only. Kaindoh Kain't do yet but maybe down the road.

I re-sign Nnadi to pair with Jones and Wharton for your inside rotation.

So we draft two out of these 3: DE, SS, LB.

We sign a vet DE and whichever from the DE, SS, LB need list we can't draft.

And bargain shop depth.
[Reply]
Chargem 05:14 AM 10-10-2021
Its pretty depressing when you realize the front 7 is 3 of the biggest contracts on the team, two 2nd round picks and a 3rd round pick.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 05:02 AM 10-30-2021
I think it's ALL about the front 4 at this point. I mean, really.

We've dumped a ton of cash into the front four, and when it produced, we won.

Now it does not, and we lose.

I would absolutely put all focus on revamping that front four.

we have two talented young LB'ers, the corner room is all 26 or under, Thornhill is still there at S.

I'm putting all emphasis on front four.
[Reply]
Chargem 07:20 AM 10-30-2021
How far would you go to fix this team? If you could trade Tyreek for a top 10 pick, and free up ~18mil of cap space, would you do it?
[Reply]
Coochie liquor 08:26 AM 10-30-2021
Originally Posted by Chargem:
How far would you go to fix this team? If you could trade Tyreek for a top 10 pick, and free up ~18mil of cap space, would you do it?
Hell no. Heís having a down year so far, but we have nobody behind him. And finding receivers hasnít been great with us.
[Reply]
spanky 52 08:48 AM 10-30-2021
Originally Posted by Chargem:
How far would you go to fix this team? If you could trade Tyreek for a top 10 pick, and free up ~18mil of cap space, would you do it?
In a heartbeat.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 09:40 AM 10-30-2021
Originally Posted by spanky 52:
In a heartbeat.
oh jesus, fuck no.

We need a complete defensive rebuild, but you don't fuck up what's good about the offense to do it.

Mahomes, Hill, and Kelce are untouchable.
[Reply]
Chargem 11:34 AM 10-30-2021
He's literally the only one with a moveable contract. I don't think I would do it, but a top 10 would be pretty tempting.

What if you could get Allen Robinson for the cash freed up, bring back Gordon on a one year deal, add a draft pick?

(Allen) Robinson, Gordon, Hardman, Pringle (1 year deal), Powell, 2nd round draft pick?

Would free up two first round draft picks, including a top 10 pick, to improve the defense. Still not tempting?
[Reply]
mkp785 11:51 AM 10-30-2021
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
Iíd love Kyle Hamilton but that kid is a top 15 pick.
Well if we keep losing he might an option. Badger is gone. This kid might go top 5 though, not sure if we'll be THAT shitty.
[Reply]
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