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Nzoner's Game Room>***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***
JakeF 10:28 PM 02-26-2020
A couple of reminders...

Originally Posted by Bwana:
Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.
Originally Posted by Dartgod:
People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

[Reply]
Rain Man 02:57 PM 09-23-2021
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
No, I think what you said makes sense, specifically:

experience doing market research for hospitals tells me that they're very business-driven. They're not going to cut capacity if there's pent-up demand in an area.

So ultimately, they already knew what they could handle based on Covid wave 1 and actually knew what they needed for season 2. Hospitals operate for profit so they don't want all this excess unused capacity.
Or logically, it seems like they didn't know if they could. Otherwise, they wouldn't have expanded capacity.

I haven't paid close attention to all of the stats, but I feel like maybe that's logical if they've figured out how better to treat it, or if the second round was bigger but more mild (i.e., fewer hospital days per case).

I'm not sure what we're proving or disproving, but it's interesting to think about.
[Reply]
Rain Man 02:59 PM 09-23-2021
Originally Posted by Nirvana58:
Waiting to see if the courts block the mandate.
I think there's a strong legal history of allowing such things, so I'd be surprised if any challenges would be successful. Assuming that it happens, what's your next step?
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Hawker007 03:21 PM 09-23-2021
Originally Posted by Rain Man:
I think there's a strong legal history of allowing such things, so I'd be surprised if any challenges would be successful. Assuming that it happens, what's your next step?
I don't know about that...the main cases are from 1905 and 1922. There's plenty of angles left to challenge it, particularly if you are in a state that has passed a law against mandating vaccines, or for religious purposes.
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Nirvana58 03:27 PM 09-23-2021
Originally Posted by Hawker007:
I don't know about that...the main cases are from 1905 and 1922. There's plenty of angles left to challenge it, particularly if you are in a state that has passed a lot against mandating vaccines, or for religious purposes.
Those are also cases where the state mandated it. Not a federal mandate.
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dirk digler 03:36 PM 09-23-2021
Originally Posted by Rain Man:
I think there's a strong legal history of allowing such things, so I'd be surprised if any challenges would be successful. Assuming that it happens, what's your next step?
Yep, Multiple Federal courts have already ruled on this in the last couple of months in favor of the employers

If you are in a state that has at-will employment you are SOL
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Monticore 03:46 PM 09-23-2021
Restaurants, movie theatres , my kids hockey games without any mouth breathers around , I haven't been this excited since they banned smoking indoors.
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Sure-Oz 04:35 PM 09-23-2021
Originally Posted by DaFace:
I'll never understand why 99% survival rate is an argument for anything. If 1% of the country died, that would be around 3.5 million people. Or to frame it a little differently, if 1% of people in Arrowhead stadium died, that would be around 760 people. One percent is NOT A SMALL NUMBER.



I just don't understand how anyone can look at the ~700k deaths from this thing and think, "This is fine. Let's keep this up."
My friend keeps pushing that and natural immunity. He got covid a few months ago and was as sick as he's been and avoided the hospital. He missed 2 weeks work and same with his wife. Now he's like well I got natural immunity so I don't even need the vaccine. It's frustrating showing him everything but he isn't budging.
[Reply]
Sure-Oz 04:37 PM 09-23-2021
Originally Posted by Katipan:
They do not care.



Frame it in prose all you want, but they do not care.

If it doesn't touch them, it's someone else's problem.



It's some of the most vile thought patterns ever used here and we used to call each other sacks of santorum.
Basically that's how I feel. My friend is like well I'm glad you got the vaccine but I'm good. He's still worried about long term effects but not worried what covid may have done to him and possibly his wife long-term. He is fine wearing a mask when it's required. I'm honestly surprised he's taken this stance when his parents and brother have been vaxxed and they are all smokers.
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Chief Pagan 04:57 PM 09-23-2021
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:


At the end of the day, whatever the collective reasons for reducing capacity the media has never mentioned these reductions and instead screamed about how we were close to the edge here and there over and over.

Seems like if hospital capacity was a national issue blinking red it was something the Federal government and states could have fixed by now if they wanted to.
The biggest bottle neck is staff. You can throw money at the problem and physically create another ICU bed, but you can't just create trained staff out of thin air by offering money.

Nine women can't have a baby in a month.

A lot of the high tech staff that runs the ICU beds is burned out from longer hours than normal. They have also had to deal with more patients at once than they did pre-pandemic. So maybe they might be monitoring four patients at once instead of two.

So just retaining/replacing staff has sometimes been an issue let alone increasing staff.

And for ICU staff, this crisis hasn't just been a few weeks or months. It's more than a year and counting. And now they have the additional frustration of taking care of patients that they wouldn't have had to if those patients had only gotten vaccinated.
[Reply]
Nirvana58 05:33 PM 09-23-2021
Originally Posted by Rain Man:
I think there's a strong legal history of allowing such things, so I'd be surprised if any challenges would be successful. Assuming that it happens, what's your next step?
I haven't made any decisions. I know a few coworkers that will for sure quit. I hope it doesn't come to that.

I am someone that isn't against the vaccine. I just have already had covid and not in a high risk group. Since I seem to be better protected from Delta than the vaccinated there is no reason for me to get the vaccine at this point.

I also believe that people should be able to have the choice. They should not have to choose between their job and getting a brand new vaccine with no long term data. One that is also shielded from any liability from people that have adverse reactions.
[Reply]
MahomesMagic 05:36 PM 09-23-2021
Originally Posted by Chief Pagan:
The biggest bottle neck is staff. You can throw money at the problem and physically create another ICU bed, but you can't just create trained staff out of thin air by offering money.

Nine women can't have a baby in a month.

A lot of the high tech staff that runs the ICU beds is burned out from longer hours than normal. They have also had to deal with more patients at once than they did pre-pandemic. So maybe they might be monitoring four patients at once instead of two.

So just retaining/replacing staff has sometimes been an issue let alone increasing staff.

And for ICU staff, this crisis hasn't just been a few weeks or months. It's more than a year and counting. And now they have the additional frustration of taking care of patients that they wouldn't have had to if those patients had only gotten vaccinated.
Sure, staffing is an issue. I also would imagine it will be even more of an issue if they lose more staff due to vaccine mandates.
[Reply]
lawrenceRaider 06:24 PM 09-23-2021
Originally Posted by Nirvana58:
I haven't made any decisions. I know a few coworkers that will for sure quit. I hope it doesn't come to that.

I am someone that isn't against the vaccine. I just have already had covid and not in a high risk group. Since I seem to be better protected from Delta than the vaccinated there is no reason for me to get the vaccine at this point.

I also believe that people should be able to have the choice. They should not have to choose between their job and getting a brand new vaccine with no long term data. One that is also shielded from any liability from people that have adverse reactions.
Over 2.5 billion people globally have had 2 shots. Don't you serious adverse reactions would be known by now?
[Reply]
Fish 09:32 PM 09-23-2021
Originally Posted by Nirvana58:
I haven't made any decisions. I know a few coworkers that will for sure quit. I hope it doesn't come to that.

I am someone that isn't against the vaccine. I just have already had covid and not in a high risk group. Since I seem to be better protected from Delta than the vaccinated there is no reason for me to get the vaccine at this point.

I also believe that people should be able to have the choice. They should not have to choose between their job and getting a brand new vaccine with no long term data. One that is also shielded from any liability from people that have adverse reactions.
Over half the US population has be vaccinated, and it started ~18 months ago. Vaccines have been a huge success and there's plentiful available data to back that up. Not much excuse at this point. It's not a brand new vaccine. You don't always have the choice in what your employer requires...
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Pitt Gorilla 09:48 PM 09-23-2021
Originally Posted by Nirvana58:
If you have to ask this after a year of lock downs and now moving forward with vaccine mandates. I don't know what to tell you.
And yet, I still haven't lost any freedoms.
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jdubya 10:16 PM 09-23-2021
Anecdotal but here in NorCal we need to show proof of vax blah blah blah.

I was first to show up at a restaurant and they asked for proof of vax. I showed a picture of my vax card to them and they waved me inside. Whats funny is they didn't "look" at my photo nor ask me for ID. They simply waved me in when I showed them a picture lol. A few minutes later my buddy arrived and I saw him outside of the restaurant. He texted me that he didn't have his vax card and could not come inside. I quickly sent him a picture of my vax card and he walked right in lol. This is all bullshit folks.....get a grip
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