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Nzoner's Game Room>The MLB lockout thread
Deberg_1990 07:06 AM 12-02-2021
Discussssss

To our Fans:

I first want to thank you for your continued support of the great game of baseball. This past season, we were reminded of how the national pastime can bring us together and restore our hope despite the difficult challenges of a global pandemic. As we began to emerge from one of the darkest periods in our history, our ballparks were filled with fans; the games were filled with excitement; and millions of families felt the joy of watching baseball together.

That is why I am so disappointed about the situation in which our game finds itself today. Despite the league’s best efforts to make a deal with the Players Association, we were unable to extend our 26 year-long history of labor peace and come to an agreement with the MLBPA before the current CBA expired. Therefore, we have been forced to commence a lockout of Major League players, effective at 12:01am ET on December 2.

I want to explain to you how we got here and why we have to take this action today. Simply put, we believe that an offseason lockout is the best mechanism to protect the 2022 season. We hope that the lockout will jumpstart the negotiations and get us to an agreement that will allow the season to start on time. This defensive lockout was necessary because the Players Association’s vision for Major League Baseball would threaten the ability of most teams to be competitive. It’s simply not a viable option. From the beginning, the MLBPA has been unwilling to move from their starting position, compromise, or collaborate on solutions.

When we began negotiations over a new agreement, the Players Association already had a contract that they wouldn’t trade for any other in sports. Baseball’s players have no salary cap and are not subjected to a maximum length or dollar amount on contracts. In fact, only MLB has guaranteed contracts that run 10 or more years, and in excess of $300 million. We have not proposed anything that would change these fundamentals. While we have heard repeatedly that free agency is “broken” – in the month of November $1.7 billion was committed to free agents, smashing the prior record by nearly 4x. By the end of the offseason, Clubs will have committed more money to players than in any offseason in MLB history.

We worked hard to find compromise while making the system even better for players, by addressing concerns raised by the Players Association. We offered to establish a minimum payroll for all clubs to meet for the first time in baseball history; to allow the majority of players to reach free agency earlier through an age-based system that would eliminate any claims of service time manipulation; and to increase compensation for all young players, including increases in the minimum salary. When negotiations lacked momentum, we tried to create some by offering to accept the universal Designated Hitter, to create a new draft system using a lottery similar to other leagues, and to increase the Competitive Balance Tax threshold that affects only a small number of teams.

We have had challenges before with respect to making labor agreements and have overcome those challenges every single time during my tenure. Regrettably, it appears the Players Association came to the bargaining table with a strategy of confrontation over compromise. They never wavered from collectively the most extreme set of proposals in their history, including significant cuts to the revenue-sharing system, a weakening of the competitive balance tax, and shortening the period of time that players play for their teams. All of these changes would make our game less competitive, not more.

To be clear: this hard but important step does not necessarily mean games will be cancelled. In fact, we are taking this step now because it accelerates the urgency for an agreement with as much runway as possible to avoid doing damage to the 2022 season. Delaying this process further would only put Spring Training, Opening Day, and the rest of the season further at risk – and we cannot allow an expired agreement to again cause an in-season strike and a missed World Series, like we experienced in 1994. We all owe you, our fans, better than that.

Today is a difficult day for baseball, but as I have said all year, there is a path to a fair agreement, and we will find it. I do not doubt the League and the Players share a fundamental appreciation for this game and a commitment to its fans. I remain optimistic that both sides will seize the opportunity to work together to grow, protect, and strengthen the game we love. MLB is ready to work around the clock to meet that goal. I urge the Players Association to join us at the table.
Manfred

Read a letter from the Commissioner: https://t.co/P4gRGSlfsu pic.twitter.com/zI40uGLTni

— MLB (@MLB) December 2, 2021



Statement from the Major League Baseball Players Association: pic.twitter.com/34uIGf762W

— MLBPA Communications (@MLBPA_News) December 2, 2021

[Reply]
Ocotillo 11:11 AM 03-09-2022

Ortiz: “The system in the Dominican is not ready to have a draft next year. The Dominican is not the U.S. You can’t snap a finger and everything lines up to operate the right way. We’ve got a new president who’s trying to improve things. We need to do this slowly.”

— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) March 9, 2022


Fernando Tatis Jr.: "The International Draft is going to kill baseball in DR. It's going to affect us a lot, because there will be many young people who used to give them the opportunity to get a bonus and with the draft it will not be the same ”, per @ElCaribeRD. pic.twitter.com/KpUm6KEazb

— Héctor Gómez (@hgomez27) March 9, 2022

[Reply]
DJ's left nut 11:11 AM 03-09-2022
Eliminating the QO outright would really sting small-market clubs.

I still don't understand why they EVER went to the new system of taking a pick away from an acquiring team. The old system just granted sandwich picks between the rounds for players who were offered Arb and signed elsewhere.

Just go back to that. It allows teams to attempt to maintain some level of team control for their players but also compensates them if that player finds a better outcome elsewhere. And doesn't do anything to hamper the players market value.
[Reply]
dlphg9 11:16 AM 03-09-2022
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Eliminating the QO outright would really sting small-market clubs.

I still don't understand why they EVER went to the new system of taking a pick away from an acquiring team. The old system just granted sandwich picks between the rounds for players who were offered Arb and signed elsewhere.

Just go back to that. It allows teams to attempt to maintain some level of team control for their players but also compensates them if that player finds a better outcome elsewhere. And doesn't do anything to hamper the players market value.
They are constantly doing things to fuck over small market clubs. Just look at the god damn draft and how they limited the amount of money they can spend.
[Reply]
Ocotillo 11:19 AM 03-09-2022
I thought the pick being attached was the only issue too, not the qualifying offer itself. The pick attached reduced some players' earning potential on a FA deal, which what it wasn't designed to do.

You see it every year, some players accept the qualifying offer because it's in their best interest to accept it. They won't get the same AAV on the free market that the QO gives them.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 11:22 AM 03-09-2022
Originally Posted by dlphg9:
They are constantly doing things to fuck over small market clubs. Just look at the god damn draft and how they limited the amount of money they can spend.
Eh, the limits were getting necessary.

The demands from 1.1 to sign were starting to get so outrageous that small market teams were having to make 'business decisions' and passing on the top talents to get guys they could sign.

I get that it interferes with their ability to make splash picks later in the draft, but when bad teams sitting in the top 3 are taking the 10th best talent on the board for fear of not being able to afford their bonus, it was getting out of hand.
[Reply]
jd1020 11:22 AM 03-09-2022
Originally Posted by dlphg9:
They are constantly doing things to fuck over small market clubs. Just look at the god damn draft and how they limited the amount of money they can spend.
The players you covet are fucking over small markets more than anything the league is doing.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 11:25 AM 03-09-2022
Originally Posted by jd1020:
The players you covet are fucking over small markets more than anything the league is doing.
Yup.

The things the players are fixated on are the things that will make it MORE difficult for small markets to compete long-term.

Because when it comes to this particular class division, the mid-market teams are going to align more closely with the small market squads than the large market ones. And in the end, they'll have the numbers.

MLB could easily push through approved proposals designed to significantly alter the competitive landscape of baseball. But the MLBPA will shoot them down because it will come at the expense of the agents who are pulling the strings behind the scenes.
[Reply]
chiefzilla1501 11:29 AM 03-09-2022
Originally Posted by dallaschiefsfan:
Indeed! There is major butt-hurt from the sports media for the owners. Outside of garden variety class-warfare, I'm unsure why. This whole idea that "players are the sport" is stupid. No owners...no organization or investment capital. No fans...no demand. No players...no product. Each of those statements are true. The difference is that nobody has ever really worked for the customer...the fans - specifically the fans of teams with smaller local TV contracts. I want the chance for generational talents to stay in KC if you draft and develop said-player. Nothing about the players or owners proposals in this negotiation works towards making that a reality.
Is it hard to figure out why people hate owners? Because a good chunk of them especially in baseball don’t give a shit about winning. It’s either a play toy or a financial investment. And as long as you have salary caps, regardless of what you think is necessary for competitive balance, it means players are underpaid and the owners get an even higher share than what the free market would allow.

So you have owners pocketing way more than their fair share in the name of competitive balance. And you have owners griping about not having enough money and yet nobody sells the team. Players don’t get contracts once they’re no longer useful. If the market worked consistently bad owners would and should see some financial distress. So yeAh I agree like on most issues it’s somewhere in the middle. But I’d say the worst of the bad owners in every sport are by far the biggest problems in sports.

This is unusual for the owners to bear the brunt of it. Usually it’s about selfish players who shouldn’t complain about a game they love while others are working double shifts for nothing. A dumb argument but one that plays out constantly.
[Reply]
dlphg9 11:36 AM 03-09-2022
Originally Posted by jd1020:
The players you covet are ****ing over small markets more than anything the league is doing.
The players I covet? I've said the players are being dipshits and say there should be a floor and cap.
[Reply]
jd1020 11:43 AM 03-09-2022
Originally Posted by dlphg9:
The players I covet? I've said the players are being dipshits and say there should be a floor and cap.
Yes. You're complaining about the league damaging small market teams and not targeting the average player. The league has been talking about revenue sharing and caps since the players went on strike in 1994.

The players aren't underpaid because the large market teams dont spend enough on their rosters, they spend more on their rosters than football teams where the average team is worth $1B more. The players are underpaid because the players allow teams like the Pirates to operate at poverty levels. Yet what are the players fighting for? Any talk of legit revenue shares and a floor is shot down without discussion and they in turn ask for ridiculous leaps of $30M in year-to-year CBT gains.
[Reply]
dlphg9 12:00 PM 03-09-2022
Originally Posted by jd1020:
Yes. You're complaining about the league damaging small market teams and not targeting the average player. The league has been talking about revenue sharing and caps since the players went on strike in 1994.

The players aren't underpaid because the large market teams dont spend enough on their rosters, they spend more on their rosters than football teams where the average team is worth $1B more. The players are underpaid because the players allow teams like the Pirates to operate at poverty levels. Yet what are the players fighting for? Any talk of legit revenue shares and a floor is shot down without discussion and they in turn ask for ridiculous leaps of $30M in year-to-year CBT gains.
When have I put anything about agreeing with an increase of the CBT? I have been questioning the point of the increase and have been saying they need to implement a salary cap, but more importantly, a salary floor. I have a fairly long post about it in this thread.

I've said multiple times that the MLBPA isn't targeting the average player.

Maybe you should re read my posts a bit slower.
[Reply]
jd1020 12:01 PM 03-09-2022
Originally Posted by dlphg9:
When have I put anything about agreeing with an increase of the CBT? I have been questioning the point of the increase and have been saying they need to implement a salary cap, but more importantly, a salary floor. I have a fairly long post about it in this thread.

I've said multiple times that the MLBPA isn't targeting the average player.

Maybe you should re read my posts a bit slower.
I dont give a shit about your other posts. I'm replying directly to a post you made directed at the league fucking over small markets.
[Reply]
dlphg9 12:05 PM 03-09-2022
Originally Posted by jd1020:
I dont give a shit about your other posts. I'm replying directly to a post you made directed at the league ****ing over small markets.
You said the players I covet.

So where does that come from? Because I said nothing about the players in that post dipshit.
[Reply]
jd1020 12:07 PM 03-09-2022
Originally Posted by dlphg9:
You said the players I covet.

So where does that come from? Because I said nothing about the players in that post dipshit.
So you are bitching about small markets getting fucked over and its not at all related to their ability or willingness to sign the players that are actually doing the most damage? Ok...
[Reply]
ChiefsCountry 12:14 PM 03-09-2022
Scott Boras is the devil for baseball
[Reply]
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