I feel like the list gets weaker every year. Maybe it's just because I no longer look starry-eyed at football players. I still don't understand who Deron Cherry and Albert Lewis made angry, because they deserve to be on this list over nearly every player on it.
Whatever. The next cut goes from these 26 to 15. So vote for the 15 that you'll begrudgingly allow even though they're not Deron Cherry and Albert Lewis.
Poll coming slowly, like that big dude who knocks on the players' hotel doors when they get in. [Reply]
Originally Posted by ThaVirus:
I said "that's cap" to a guy I work with a few weeks back. He's 30 and he also had no clue wtf I was talking about so don't feel bad.
That's honestly not one I should use in this demographic, but it's one I started using as a joke and worked its way into my vocab. Sorry.
I have 14 and 11 year olds. Cap has been in my vocabulary for awhile now. :-) [Reply]
I came up with 11 and thought I was really doing something...
Jared Allen, DE
Willie Anderson, T
Ronde Barber, CB
LeRoy Butler, S
Andre Johnson, WR
Sam Mills, LB
DeMarcus Ware, DE
Reggie Wayne, WR
Vince Wilfork, NT
Anquan Bolden, WR
Robert Mathis, DE
Methinks not many people watched LeRoy Butler play. If a guy like Troy Polamalu is a HOF player, Butler is an easy in. His stretch from 1993 to 1998 was as good a stretch by a SS as there is. [Reply]
Originally Posted by kccrow:
Methinks not many people watched LeRoy Butler play. If a guy like Troy Polamalu is a HOF player, Butler is an easy in. His stretch from 1993 to 1998 was as good a stretch by a SS as there is.
He created the Lambeau Leap as it is monikered [Reply]
So your contention is that Otis Taylor
was better than Cliff Branch?
Really?
ETA: Don't get me wrong, Otis is a HOF WR. He should have been in ages ago.
Without a doubt OT was a better player. He was in the top 5 WRs I've ever seen. Smooth perfect routes, speed, great hands, and tough. Who do you think went after Ben Davidson when that slimeball speared Lenny the Cool. Not a tackle or FB, it was Otis. That alone should get him in the Hall.
The only part of your comment I can agree with is OT should have been in the Hall long ago, [Reply]
Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare:
He created the Lambeau Leap as it is monikered
I'm watching it, and I feel like the first Lambeau Leap is invalid. There's a good chance that the receiver was down when the ball came out, though I can't definitively prove it. But it sure looks like Reggie White was out of bounds when he lateraled it.
If you were never one of the best players at your position (and ideally for several years at least) you should NOT be in the HOF. Longevity is important also, unless you're Gayle Sayers or Jim Brown.
I don't remember Anquan Boldin being considered one of the best receivers in football. Andre Johnson might have been for a short period, but not long enough.
I say yes to Wayne, Barber, Wilfork, and Hester. Everyone else just doesn't scream HOF to me. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Rain Man:
I'm watching it, and I feel like the first Lambeau Leap is invalid. There's a good chance that the receiver was down when the ball came out, though I can't definitively prove it. But it sure looks like Reggie White was out of bounds when he lateraled it.
Edit: But screw the Raiders.
NFL Refs have been doing that for decades. Statistical analysis proves it.
Originally Posted by JudasRising20:
If you were never one of the best players at your position (and ideally for several years at least) you should NOT be in the HOF. Longevity is important also, unless you're Gayle Sayers or Jim Brown.
I don't remember Anquan Boldin being considered one of the best receivers in football. Andre Johnson might have been for a short period, but not long enough.
I say yes to Wayne, Barber, Wilfork, and Hester. Everyone else just doesn't scream HOF to me.
Maybe because of where they played?
Andre Johnson has more 100 rec seasons (5x) than Randy Moss and more 1500+ yard seasons (3x) than him too. He's 11th all time in receptions and in yards. His knock is he didn't score as much (47th all time). That doesn't mean he doesn't deserve the HOF. 11th all time in the two most important categories for a WR should probably get in. And he's got great company in this class too...
Holt is 21st in receptions, 16th in yards, and 38th in TDs.
Wayne is 10th in receptions, 10th in yards, and 26th in TDs
Boldin is 9th in receptions, 14th in yards, and 26th in TDs
Ward is 14th in receptions, 27th in yards, and 16th in TDs
Smith is 12th in receptions, 8th in yards, and 29th in TDs.
There's a good chance every one of these WRs gets in and I'd like to think Johnson, Wayne, and Smith are guaranteed. It may just be what year they do. Holt is definitely the least likely, I'd say followed by Ward.
EDIT:
As for the rest... not sure how you can't justify at least a few of these guys.
Willie Anderson may just be the best RT to ever play in the NFL. He didn't play LT so who cares, right? He faced 9 of the top-10 pass rushers ever and only allowed a single sack to them and gave up 16 sacks in 13 years. He may have been the best run-blocking tackle to ever play.
LeRoy Butler? Only player with 3+INt and 3+Sacks in 3 straight seasons. First DB to reach 20 sacks and 20 Ints. He had better stats, other than tackles, than Atwater or Lynch, and all of his stats trump Polamalu which make up the modern SS's in the Hall. He was, perhaps, the most complete safety of the 90s and was great at everything from blitzing, to forcing fumbles, to coverage, etc. He is on the all-decade team of the 90s and only 3 players haven't made it yet from that group.
DeMarcus Ware... 9th all time in sacks, 4th all time in tackles for a loss, and 15th all time in force fumbles. That probably says enough. [Reply]
Originally Posted by kccrow:
Maybe because of where they played?
Andre Johnson has more 100 rec seasons (5x) than Randy Moss and more 1500+ yard seasons (3x) than him too. He's 11th all time in receptions and in yards. His knock is he didn't score as much (47th all time). That doesn't mean he doesn't deserve the HOF. 11th all time in the two most important categories for a WR should probably get in. And he's got great company in this class too...
Holt is 21st in receptions, 16th in yards, and 38th in TDs.
Wayne is 10th in receptions, 10th in yards, and 26th in TDs
Boldin is 9th in receptions, 14th in yards, and 26th in TDs
Ward is 14th in receptions, 27th in yards, and 16th in TDs
Smith is 12th in receptions, 8th in yards, and 29th in TDs.
There's a good chance every one of these WRs gets in and I'd like to think Johnson, Wayne, and Smith are guaranteed. It may just be what year they do. Holt is definitely the least likely, I'd say followed by Ward.
EDIT:
As for the rest... not sure how you can't justify at least a few of these guys.
Willie Anderson may just be the best RT to ever play in the NFL. He didn't play LT so who cares, right? He faced 9 of the top-10 pass rushers ever and only allowed a single sack to them and gave up 16 sacks in 13 years. He may have been the best run-blocking tackle to ever play.
LeRoy Butler? Only player with 3+INt and 3+Sacks in 3 straight seasons. First DB to reach 20 sacks and 20 Ints. He had better stats, other than tackles, than Atwater or Lynch, and all of his stats trump Polamalu which make up the modern SS's in the Hall. He was, perhaps, the most complete safety of the 90s and was great at everything from blitzing, to forcing fumbles, to coverage, etc. He is on the all-decade team of the 90s and only 3 players haven't made it yet from that group.
DeMarcus Ware... 9th all time in sacks, 4th all time in tackles for a loss, and 15th all time in force fumbles. That probably says enough.
Receiving numbers are skewed based on today's passing friendly era. 100 receptions in a season used to be rare. Otis Taylor is not in the HOF, yet all these accumulators you listed likely make it.
Same thing is happening in hockey. Everyone who put up big numbers in the high scoring 1980's is being inducted into the HOF. This results in many inductees who weren't special and just benefitted from the era.
Leroy Butler was pretty good. I forgot about him. [Reply]
Originally Posted by JudasRising20:
Receiving numbers are skewed based on today's passing friendly era. 100 receptions in a season used to be rare. Otis Taylor is not in the HOF, yet all these accumulators you listed likely make it.
Same thing is happening in hockey. Everyone who put up big numbers in the high scoring 1980's is being inducted into the HOF. This results in many inductees who weren't special and just benefitted from the era.
Leroy Butler was pretty good. I forgot about him.
I can definitely agree on the WRs thing. Andre Johnson was my one choice at WR to make it because I think he was the toughest cover, could be dominant, had some really big years, and did it on a team that wasn't all that amazing.
Smith has a compelling case with what he did as an undersized guy on a team that wasn't loaded either.
Reggie Wayne had another HOF caliber receiver opposite him most of his career and so did Holt. I don't know that Ward was ever dominant enough. Boldin didn't seem to be all that dominant either, just consistently solid. I wouldn't necessarily put those guys in myself, but the committee is going to look at the stats I presented and I think they trickle in one by one and all end up in there. [Reply]
We need to come to terms with Otis never getting in.
There were just too many in his era to get in already, which is why some guys on that list for this year may not.
Ray Berry, Lance Alworth, Tommy McDonald, Bob Hayes, Harold Carmichael, Charlie Joyner, Don Maynard, Bobby Mitchell, Charlie Taylor, and Paul Warfield are all in and right in that same time period that Otis played.
Otis has a case but it's really hard to argue he's more deserving than those guys or as consistent. The only case I have is I think Charlie Joyner is a meh selection given he wasn't very good the first half of his career, and that career happened to span 18 years. It is what it is though. If Charlie wasn't in and Otis still wasn't in, I'd still have a hard time bitching about it too much. [Reply]