I don't blame Clemens for using Roids, I mean wouldn't you if pretty much every damn hitter in the 90s was on them?
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Bonds' career batting average was around 0.300 before the juice and typically hit around 30 homers per year. Suddenly the numbers jump to 0.370 and hitting 60-70 homers per year.

Bonds was an amazing all-around player before the juice, but it's undeniable that the juice made a pretty big impact on the numbers in his later career. I wish he stayed clean, because he could have given us 600 stolen bases and 600 home runs. Instead he bulked up and hit a lot more homers, but it killed his base-running and prevented him from getting to 600 stolen bases.
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I never said he wasn't a great player before the juice. He was a great all-around player and was on his way to the Hall of Fame, no doubt. But it's a fact that he was a 0.300 hitter before the juice, along with a 0.370 hitter after the juice. The juice had undeniable impact on his numbers, especially at an advanced age where players are supposed to decline (ahem...Tom Brady the latest example of it).

I wish Bonds stayed clean because he could have given us the mind-boggling achievement of 600 homers with 600 stolen bases. He bulked up so much and that led to a lot more homers, but it killed his base-running and kept us from seeing him get the 600 stolen bases. Seriously...600/600 without steroids would have been jawdropping and more impressive than his inflated homer numbers on the juice.
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But was the improvement really just about the juice? Are we sure about that, I mean. Though i get you completely about the stolen bases thing. Watching him rumble around the bases when he used to be fast was kind of depressing.

I'm not a baseball player so I'm really asking, btw.

I have some friends that either played at a high level (up to the minors, AA I think), and have made the acquaintance of a couple former MLBers, and every one of them scoffs at the idea that simply adding an overabundance of muscle can make you a better hitter. I won't get into all the hitting theory they all tried to impress upon me over the years (it would be a really really long post for one), but as it was said to me by actual hitters, hitting is a lot more about good eyes, quick hands, and what goes on in your head.
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Around the time he started on the Juice, he also started wearing enormous armor on his elbow/arm that allowed him to crowd the plate. So he had two pretty big advantages. The BALCO lab bragged about their Juice being ahead of the game compared to steroid testing and whatnot. I think the stuff they gave him improved his vision in addition to his strength/recovery, etc. He was doing stuff at an advanced age that is impossible. Hell, maybe he was on the Stem Cell & HGH stuff that Tom Brady is using to be a 25 year old in a 45 year old body.
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Bonds' steroid use definitely allowed him to have a quicker bat speed which allowed him to hit for more power. I don't think there's any doubt about that. Of course, none of that was against the rules when he played so I'm not sure why anybody would even care at all.
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Yeah, but you keep on talking about how he was a .300 hitter and then all of the sudden hit .370. First of all, batting average isn't the end all be all but the guy is just that, a career .300 hitter. He had seasons above that and a few below. You're focusing on one single stat. The dude was an on base machine. He had an OPS about 1.000 for SEVEN straight seasons before the steroid rage even began.

He was a legit 5-tool player for his entire career, save for his seasons after turning like 35 years old. And the obsession with the 600SB's is weird to me as well. He's the only 500HR/500SB in the history of the game. You're knocking his total resume because he didn't break an even bigger record than he already did.
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He was a great, great player before the Juice. No doubt. The WAR number and MVP's before the Juice are clear evidence that he was already a Hall of Famer.

But there is a pretty big difference between hitting 0.300 and hitting 0.370. The article posted in this thread called him the greatest hitter ever. I don't think he was the greatest hitter ever without the Juice. That was my initial point in bringing up his 0.300 average before it jumped 70 points on the Juice.
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That's wrong.

Commissioner Fay Vincent sent a memorandum in 1991 stating: "There is no place for illegal drugs in baseball. Their use by players and others in baseball can neither be condoned nor tolerated. Baseball players and personnel cannot be permitted to give even the slightest suggestion that illegal drug use is either acceptable or safe. It is the responsibility of all baseball players and personnel to see to it that the use of illegal drugs does not occur, and if it does, to put a stop to it."

If it was not considered wrong, why haven't any of the suspected players been open about their use of performance enhancing substances? Very few have even denied it.
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Memos from commissioners don't constitute rules of a sport. If Fay Vincent or Bud Selig wanted to make it a rule, they would have negotiated with the players to have it be a part of the CBA (which Selig eventually did once everybody started losing their shit over it about 15 years ago, creating the drug policy and the PED suspensions). They didn't want to, though, because they knew it mutually benefited everybody to have all the players juiced up.
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I accidentally hit the submit button early, but I don't want to drag this out so here's the end of my post above:

Personally, I don't believe that having a lot of muscle automatically makes anyone a better hitter. I'd like to see some evidence of this at a scientific level if anyone disagrees.

But here's the real issue: the baseball HOF is really not about promoting the greatness of their players at all. Not anymore anyway, if it ever was. Really, it's just a political forum; "do we like this guy vs. that guy." Because let's be honest, if we can for a second:

Barry Bonds (a player I never liked that much in the first place) not only had the numbers or would have anyway, based on the projections listed above, but he also was one of the most feared hitters and players of his time to be in the HOF, period. No question, the end.

And at the end of the day, being a HOFer should be about both. Not how much some writer liked you when you were playing.

If he doesn't get in because everyone THINKS he took 'roids, it's all a bunch of politically driven bullshit that has absolutely nothing to do with the game of baseball anyway, and they should just shut the door on the hall and burn it to the ground.

Peace.
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He will eventually get in, regardless of the writers voting on it. The veterans' committee will vote him in. Might take a little while, but I think it happens. Bonds was a Hall of Famer without the Juice by 1998. The veterans' committee will be made up of former players who recognize this.
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Well, when the owners finally did decide to approach the MLBPA about testing, Donald Fehr cried foul about player privacy even though there were players in the union that were advocating for it, while having their reputations tarnished being guilty by association.

MLBPA has always been stringent against any kind of drug testing, that's why recreational drugs have never been tested for.
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The consumption and sale of performance enhancing substances did violate federal law, so I don't know how we can get any clearer that it was wrong.

There's a reason why Ben Johnson was stripped of his 1988 gold in the Olympic 100 meters. Our international sporting society at large doesn't condone this.
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The Today's Era Committee meets in December 2022, so their wait could be only a matter of months.
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