Honestly, I’d rather keep him along the interior where he is elite. But Stout mentioned that the base DL is Jones and Clark on the edges with Reed and Nnadi along the interior.
That’s a big risk the team is taking, and the early returns in spot duty last year were not encouraging.
But Stout mentions that Jones has slimmed down a ton as well, clearly prepared to take a stronger role at RDE.
Maybe the most important thing to watch for our defense.
He also mentions Humphrey is your starting center. [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
Chris Jones is the 2nd best interior pass rusher in the NFL. That’s where his value is inside. He will continue to be inside on the majority of passing downs.
This is a way of getting more out of him in the run game while allowing you to play your 2 best run stuffers inside on early downs.
Again, this makes sense to anybody with half a brain.
How many halves of your brain did you use watching the 2019 regular season Titans game?
It makes no sense to me that "the best way to help the run D is putting Jones on the outside." He was completely out of position the entire game. [Reply]
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
Assuming they are going to use Chris Jones heavily at DE and run the exact same scheme and ask him to do the exact same things they had Okafor/Kpassagnon doing at that spot is silly.
It's where the criticism you've drawn about locking in on traditional descriptions of positions is coming from.
Yes, Chris Jones is going to play some strongside DE. Because he's a big, physical beast and much differently talented than the guys they've had at strongside DE in recent years, either (1) The Chiefs are going to do something different with Jones at SSDE than previous guys, that uses his talents well and also benefits the whole defense OR (2) The Chiefs are going to be stupid and just ask him to do the same stuff, only better.
A 4-man under SSDE (which Spagnuolo has used in the past) will have very different gap responsibilities than a traditional 4-man unit (that just asks its RE to be a 4 tech and its LE to be a traditional 5-tech against attached TE and 4-tech when there are no TE attached).
We actually don't have to speculate much about what Spags might do given such-and-such formations and line ups. Jones has already played DE in a game for us under Spags, and he was lined up in most of the same sets Kpass was.
Here's hoping they coach him up there, because he wasn't great. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
Building a football team is tough, man. You know this. If there's a market inefficiency at a certain position because you have an insanely good coaching staff or because the coverages you draw up don't require the absolute best talent in the world, you roll with that plan. Each and every time.
Fans screamed about the CB position, not realizing that it was one of those things that the Chiefs just didn't care as much about. And those fans didn't know what the Chiefs knew about their team. And guess what? Those fans were wrong.
Who's to say the exact same situation isn't taking place with DE? Reid and the Chiefs have repeatedly said that QBs are getting too good and getting the ball out of their hands too quickly to just rely on your outside pass rush talent to pressure the QB. If you want that pressure, you're going to have to collapse the interior of the pocket because the shorter distance from DT to QB can make the difference when you only have 2 seconds to make a play or disrupt something. So what if that's exactly what the Chiefs are doing by getting explosive guys like Jones and Reed and allowing their DEs to not be as expensive provided they do the other parts of their jobs well? Remember when the plan was Alex Okafor for that opposite DE spot? And his backup Tanoh Kpassagnon, a dude who in the 3-4 was all but a giant bust (and still isn't that great, but being meh is better than sucking). Or how about Old Man Suggs? We've done just fine with those meh dudes at one of the DE spots all while Frank Clark drinks goat piss on the other side.
If the Chiefs valued the DE/Edge rush position the way common NFL pundits say you should (it being the third most important position behind QB and LT) then why would they go three straight offseasons without bothering to spend more than low tier free agent dollars or 5th round picks at one of the positions? It's not just, "Whoops we ran out of money." Football is a game of priorities, and along the way, there were any number of positions that the Chiefs could have opted to not pay/acquire/draft all so they could shore up talent at the DE spot.
I don't know about you, but what it says to me is the Chiefs are exploiting a market inefficiency in ways we don't understand because we're not privy to the player information they have. It's possible that they believe the league overvalues DE by a slight bit, and have instead chosen to spend picks and cash on the interior.
Missed this post, SNR. My apologies.
Anyway, I agree with a lot of this post. I personally value edgerushers a lot more than the current Chiefs apparently do. It is a philosophical difference I have with them. [Reply]
Ryne Nutt was the southeast scout I believe when Jones was drafted. He was asked about a comparison and he mentioned a couple of good players and purposely didn’t compare him to a couple great players. He mentioned Marcus Stroud and Haynesworth(but quick to say haynesworth the player not the shitty attitude). And John Henderson he was dominant until a back injury. All the reporters were waiting for him to call him the next Richard Seymour but he wasn’t going to put that kind of pressure on him. It’s like comparing Mahomes to Favre and doing it publicly in front of the local media and not just privately.
That’s what he’s become though is a modern day Richard Seymour. And like Richard started off in a 3-4 and moved to a 4-3 when he got traded to Oakland and played much more DE there and then compared to where he will play now. But I don’t see Jones getting the same high percentage snaps at End as Seymour did. Just comparing he is athletic enough to do it and be very successful
It’s not reinventing the wheel. Reggie White in Green Bay played strong side end because of his size and length and what that did to boost their run defense. He slid back inside in obvious pass situations. Justin Tuck and those type of comps is different because you’re talking about a capable DE who is physically tough enough to play inside and allow you more athleticism on pass downs. Similar to moving Jones around just for different reasons. Hell, Neil Smith occasionally slid inside to DT and was like Jones with a knack for knocking down passes. But an all pro if you leave his ass outside at DE.
What you’re not bright enough to see is these are different looks for the QB Entire OL RB offensive coordinator and whole offensive staff. To cause chaos and confusion pre snap and their whole week of film prep for that matter.
You’re not bright enough to see the DL like a bullpen in baseball. You have your prototype that spags likes but also someone like Danna who you hope opponents breathe a sigh of relief when he comes in because he is smaller shorter armed but he’s tough and smart and competes very. Wharton is like a young John Randle. What more do you need to say when you have a Seymour comp and a John randle comp with some guys that are very athletic and have piled up their own sack stats when healthy which is another thread all in itself. The rest need more experience and snaps but have a great scouting and coaching staff. For most of us to enjoy them while they’re here. Most of us anyway.
Most of us look at the arrowhead pride twinks and the like of amateur podcast stuff as a small piece of the pie and take them for what their worth. Sometimes more informative than others and for some it will give them a way to understand the game better but that’s not important as long as you enjoy it.
What I find dumb and different people are going to feel different is this recreating football discussion and trying to turn it into some form of football intellect which is pure donkey shit. It just douches up everything. Like smelling your own farts and coming up with fancy names to attach to the fragrances. If you try to put your own douchey touches and give everyone a golden shower of your football intellect don’t be surprised when they call you out on it.
We’ve been following this team and league for more years than we would like to admit and it’s just fine with the X’s and O’s not being all dramatically rewritten [Reply]
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
How many halves of your brain did you use watching the 2019 regular season Titans game?
It makes no sense to me that "the best way to help the run D is putting Jones on the outside." He was completely out of position the entire game.
No, the best way to help the run D is to have Reed and Nnadi in the middle you dumb fuck. Jones at DE is just the cherry on top if it works out like the Chiefs are hoping/planning.
I also think it’s hilarious that you think 1 fucking game from 2 years ago means anything. Jones is going to have a lot more practice and a much more defined role at DE with a full offseason of practicing and working on it. That’s entirely different from throwing him out there randomly in 1 game against one of the best RT’s in football. [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
No, the best way to help the run D is to have Reed and Nnadi in the middle you dumb ****. Jones at DE is just the cherry on top if it works out like the Chiefs are hoping/planning.
I also think it’s hilarious that you think 1 ****ing game from 2 years ago means anything. Jones is going to have a lot more practice and a much more defined role at DE with a full offseason of practicing and working on it. That’s entirely different from throwing him out there randomly in 1 game against one of the best RT’s in football.
Okay if you’re a team that is seeing the Chiefs continuously start their game out with Clark, Nnadi, Reed and Jones as your front on first down, then why not pass every time you encounter that?
The pass rush is probably a lot weaker in that scenario. Chris Jones isn’t bending the edge like a normal end and Nnadi is not a good rusher. [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
No, the best way to help the run D is to have Reed and Nnadi in the middle you dumb ****. Jones at DE is just the cherry on top if it works out like the Chiefs are hoping/planning.
I also think it’s hilarious that you think 1 ****ing game from 2 years ago means anything. Jones is going to have a lot more practice and a much more defined role at DE with a full offseason of practicing and working on it. That’s entirely different from throwing him out there randomly in 1 game against one of the best RT’s in football.
I'm sorry but if we're going to go to the Super Bowl he's going to be playing a lot of the best RTs in football in the playoffs. The "bruh that other team was super good tho" is not the counterargument I want to hear.
If we asked Kelce to lose 20 pounds and become our X receiver people would justifiably lose their minds.
I don't know why skepticism on this issue is so hard for you to wrap your mind around. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
I'm sorry but if we're going to go to the Super Bowl he's going to be playing a lot of the best RTs in football in the playoffs. The "bruh that other team was super good tho" is not the counterargument I want to hear.
If we asked Kelce to lose 20 pounds and become our X receiver people would justifiably lose their minds.
I don't know why skepticism on this issue is so hard for you to wrap your mind around.
So you reply and completely ignore the most important part.
This is about putting your best 2 run stuffers on the inside on early downs. That’s Nnadi and Reed.
Jones has never been a great run defender inside. He has much more potential on early downs at DE/5T though. If he can be a good run defender there and allow Nnadi and Reed to play inside, then slide inside on passing downs, that’s absolutely ideal given our personnel.
You seriously do not have a fucking clue and it couldn’t be more obvious. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Okay if you’re a team that is seeing the Chiefs continuously start their game out with Clark, Nnadi, Reed and Jones as your front on first down, then why not pass every time you encounter that?
The pass rush is probably a lot weaker in that scenario. Chris Jones isn’t bending the edge like a normal end and Nnadi is not a good rusher.
How many fucking times does it have to be explained to you that this is dependent on matchups?
JFC it’s like some of you don’t even pay attention to what is being said, you just keep saying the same shit over and over again.
The Chiefs will do that against running teams, not passing teams. If the Chiefs are daring you to pass, it’s because they don’t believe you can beat them that way. This isn’t fucking rocket science.
If the Browns want to try to beat us throwing the ball as opposed to running it, by all means, go right on ahead.
I also don’t believe that our pass rush drops off THAT much. Reed, Clark, and Jones will be able to get to the QB. It’s not like we will have no pass rush with that group. [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
So you reply and completely ignore the most important part.
This is about putting your best 2 run stuffers on the inside on early downs. That’s Nnadi and Reed.
Jones has never been a great run defender inside. He has much more potential on early downs at DE though. If he can be a good run defender there and allow Nnadi and Reed to play inside, then slide inside on passing downs, that’s absolutely ideal given our personnel.
You seriously do not have a ****ing clue and it couldn’t be more obvious.
That's a man-sized if, though. As you've admitted, he's not a good run defender -- or perhaps we should say a consistently good run defender. But he just offers so much upside against the pass you can't bench him.
Moving him to a new position he's never seriously played and asking him to do something he wasn't good at at the position he conquered is, as I said, a man-sized if. [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
How many ****ing times does it have to be explained to you that this is dependent on matchups?
Obviously it's all matchups, however let's hold off from definitively saying "this is how it's going to be" when we literally won't know until the bullets start flying in Week 1. [Reply]
I'm really late to this thread, but I hope the move to DE works out. I think Jones' unique strength is his burst up the middle and power. He doesn't bend at corners like a classic edge rusher.
He's unique in that he's not built like a classic tackle, but he seems too big to be a 4-3 end. I wonder if that's part of his magic, in that he's not like any other guys that offensive linemen see on film.
But I worry a little bit about him at end. Tackles are going to be quicker against his burst, and after that it's going to be all about power, where it helps to be lined up closer to the QB. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
That's a man-sized if, though. As you've admitted, he's not a good run defender -- or perhaps we should say a consistently good run defender. But he just offers so much upside against the pass you can't bench him.
Moving him to a new position he's never seriously played and asking him to do something he wasn't good at at the position he conquered is, as I said, a man-sized if.
Yea it’s a huge “if” to think Clark - Nnadi - Reed - Jones could be a great 4 man front on early downs!
Jones just has to be adequate and that group will be very difficult to run against. [Reply]