For me, the most pro-ready and best all around prospect at WR is Amari Cooper. He would come in and immediately start across from Bowe and eventually replace him as the primary WR.
What's wrong with Sammy Coates?
The guy has all of the tools in the world, I would equate him to Vernon Davis but at the WR position, but he hasn't produced much at all this season. Coates isn't even close to being his team's leading receiver so I'm not going to blame it on the scheme. Physically, Coates looks like a top 10 pick but his production is that of a mid to late rounder. Where would you take him?
Any thoughts on Coates' teammate, D'haquille Williams?
There is a massive difference in production between he and Sammy Coates so far this year; yes, this could be entirely due to Coates being injured from the Arkansas game but Coates only caught one pass in that game and dropped a possible TD pass despite playing 52 snaps against the Razorbacks. Williams is a JUCO transfer with good size, speed, and explosiveness, though not on the same level as Coates as far as pure physical ability goes. Is he a potential #1 WR or just a 2 at best?
Does DGB declare? If so, do you even dare to touch him given his off-field issues?
Despite not playing this season, I think that there is a real possibility that DGB does declare for the 2015 NFL draft; he just doesn't seem like the type of person who would be willing to go through another year of college over getting paid as a pro athlete. If he does declare, what round would you be willing to take a risk on him? The guy has had problems with at least two key NFL issues, abuse of women and weed. DGB has top 5 talent but an off-field reputation that would have him banned from the league if he had committed those acts as a Pro.
Do Jaelen Strong, Kevin White, or Devante Parker have enough speed to be potential #1 WRs? If not, are their other gifts good enough for them to be close to what Larry Fitzgerald has been in the league?
Is Stefon Diggs actually that fast? When I watch him, I don't see the same dimension of speed that guys like Jackson, Wallace, etc have. I'll be very curious to see what he actually runs at the Combine.
Who are you guys keeping your eyes on this year at the WR position? [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
So for you guus that are changing opinions on guys now, does that mean your opinions were wrong just based on their on field play?
Originally Posted by O.city:
It was just a general statement.
Over the years I've just put less and less into the combine.
That's fair. For me, it's just an interesting thing to consider for the bizarre results. Conley runs that fast... worth taking another look. Dawson runs slow? check his games again. Just something to make sure the early impressions hold or are something to reconsider. [Reply]
I haven't really liked many of the receivers "less" per say, I just don't value them as highly round wise based upon certain factors like size and speed. Also have watched more tape on some other guys.
I don't like Justin Hardy in rounds 1 or 2 anymore because he measured at barely 5'10" instead of at his over 6'0" that he was listed in college. That's a huge difference in terms of where you think a guy can play in the league. That size difference coupled with the fact he ran 4.56, that's big. Now I can't think of him as an outside guy, a #2. I basically have to think of him as a slot only, and that's probably fair based on revisiting his tape too.
A guy like Chris Conley, I had really watched much of him, but after seeing him run at the combine it made me go back and look for the guy on tape. He stands out, he's a good receiver. He's a guy I might not have really been all that aware of until he posted great numbers.
Another guy, he looks good on tape and runs like dog shit, and that's the kid from Fresno State, Josh Harper. Now instead of liking him somewhere on day 2, he's probably a 4th, 5th, maybe 6th round guy. You go back to the tape on a guy like that, and you start nitpicking the separation issues a little more.
I still like a few guys a bunch. I like Devin Smith. I like Stefon Diggs. I still like Breshad Perriman and Jaelen Strong. I like Tre McBride.
I still don't like some guys like Sammie Coates and DGB. I've probably dropped Vince Mayle quite a bit. I was higher on him than draft boards early on. I don't know if I like a 4.65 40. I like to see 4.55 or better and then like a good 3-cone and short shuttle. [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
Did anything he did on the field say hardy couldn't play outside? If not, I don't see how his size or straight line speed have anything to do with it.
When you start using those metrics to determine where or how a guy can play, you miss out on good football players.
Huge difference between NFL corners and NCAA corners. That's why people who say "College team A could be NFL team Z" sound so stupid. You get it O. Yes, Hardy can separate well on quick routes, on tape didn't show great deep speed but thought maybe it was adequate. He runs 4.56 and is 5'10". NFL corners on the outside are 6'0" and run 4.45. He's not going to beat those guys. They are going to stick to him deep, they are going to stick to him on curls and hooks. He isn't going to get those high point catches outside his frame like he did in college against longer NFL corners. He's got to be matched up correctly. [Reply]
Originally Posted by kccrow:
Huge difference between NFL corners and NCAA corners. That's why people who say "College team A could be NFL team Z" sound so stupid. You get it O. Yes, Hardy can separate well on quick routes, on tape didn't show great deep speed but thought maybe it was adequate. He runs 4.56 and is 5'10". NFL corners on the outside are 6'0" and run 4.45. He's not going to beat those guys. They are going to stick to him deep, they are going to stick to him on curls and hooks. He isn't going to get those high point catches outside his frame like he did in college against longer NFL corners. He's got to be matched up correctly.
Not so sure of this. Hardy's 40 time doesn't concern me all that much... depending on the refs you get week to week. Out of near all WR prospects, where Hardy shines is his scrappy nature. His hand fighting is top-shelf... and he can find a way to separate.
I didn't love his size, and that does hurt a bit. I have him as an early 4th, but that's not so much his fail as it is a really thick WR class of talent. KC can draft him in rd 3, and I wouldn't at all be upset.
Some dudes just are not proficient in the precise mechanics of the 40. [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
Thats just too cookie cutter for me. "Corner x in the nfl will do this etc".
Acceleration in and out of breaks, route running, etc, there's just so much more to it than speed and measurableS.
Hardy is a really good football player Though. If we can pick him, he'd be a good player for us.
Oh, I haven't stopped liking Hardy, what I've changed is how soon and where I expect he can make a living in the NFL. I have him as a guy I'd have to consider the board in the 2nd round, I don't think I'd take him there but maybe. Depends on the WR run and how I'd view his availability going into the 3rd. I don't see him making it out of round 3. I like him a bunch as a slot and have called him a prototype at that position. [Reply]
BTW the guys that make a big impact in this league at under 6' at WR on the outside aren't guys that don't run in the 4.4's. Just sayin. I have written about short receivers and how they are valuable, but speed does matter when there are other elements lacking. Doesn't mean a guy can't make a living in the league. Wes Welker, Julian Edelman, those guys aren't fast. That doesn't mean they don't catch a shitload of balls, but it also doesn't mean they primarily operate outside. [Reply]
Hardy just seems like a guy that will inevitably get pushed down due to measurables, get drafted with a chip on his shoulder, work his ass off and be a mother fer for years.
Originally Posted by O.city:
Hardy just seems like a guy that will inevitably get pushed down due to measurables, get drafted with a chip on his shoulder, work his ass off and be a mother fer for years.
Or he could bust. Lol
ah, but the fun of the draft. Just never can be so sure. :-) [Reply]
