Elements of this discussion are popping up in other threads, so let's discuss it in its own thread?
My opinion :
NFL defenses have caught up with the RPO.
Time for Patrick to really hone his pre-snap reads and start actually going through progressions based on those reads as opposed to reading the safety to determine man or zone and then doing everything else based on what the defense presents once the ball is snapped.
They know what we're doing and have adjusted.
Will Reid toss Bieniemy and go back to his WCO roots and press Mahomes to be even greater?
Or are we looking at another McCarthy-Rogers situation? [Reply]
Ya'll realize the Chiefs receivers are expected to adjust on the fly? Kelce talks about this as have other receivers in the past.
If the defense gives a look, all the receivers have to be on the same page. A receiver has to adjust his route accordingly, as do the others in order to create proper spacing between each other.
There's a shit ton of fluidity built into this offense and the players have to execute it. Hence the reason they say it takes a season or two to get GOOD at it.
Not to LEARN it. But actually execute it consistently as a group. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
Ya'll realize the Chiefs receivers are expected to adjust on the fly? Kelce talks about this as have other receivers in the past.
If the defense gives a look, all the receivers have to be on the same page. A receiver has to adjust his route accordingly, as do the others in order to create proper spacing between each other.
There's a shit ton of fluidity built into this offense and the players have to execute it. Hence the reason they say it takes a season or two to get GOOD at it.
Not to LEARN it. But actually execute it consistently as a group.
Right, so why not do something that doesn't take 3 fucking years to learn how to adapt to when there is such roster turnover in today's NFL?
Adapt.
I hate to use Brady as an example of ANYTHING, so look at the Eagles with Doug Pedersen or The Rams of last year?
They didn't need 3 years in the same system to be able to read each other's minds...
Plus, our WR corps is turning over again next year most likely.
Will it take 3 years from when the new guys get their playbooks next year?
I thought the end game was to win a SB every year? [Reply]
Not a fan of the current use of RPO for many of the reasons already posted here by the good folks at CP. Would love for someone in the media to ask Andy his thoughts on the Chiefs’ use of RPO so far this season….and going forward. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Otter:
If I were to apply my knowledge of high school sophomore experience into the pros:
Patrick is a master of improv. Work with that and west coast offense.
My thoughts are the same.
Exact same.
Big same.
When the play breaks down, Patrick will always be Patrick, and you don't "coach that out of him."
Do what Reid's mentor Mike Holmgren did with Favre, harness it and marry it to some rigid discipline, then stick around for hopefully more than one SB win. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Wisconsin_Chief:
So then it begs the question, are defenses getting a tell from Mahomes that lets them know what he doing? Obviously we know he's going to lean pass because he wants to throw the ball, but what have they figured out about him? How are they disguising things so well that he can't figure them out? Or is it a simple fact they're going to play the pass no matter what because they know we can't/won't run the ball?
Seems to me week one we committed to running the ball early and it worked like a charm. If it's the simple fact that Mahomes won't run it when he should, that's worrisome for sure.
It's the bolded part plus the putting stress on an Oline that really isn't suited for pass blocking for 20 deep shotgun drops a game. They just aren't, and part of that is on Veach for going into a second season with OBJ at LT if they weren't sold on him being the future there (thank GOD they knew better than to hand him that contract), and part of that is on Reid for not seeing it, with his offensive line and WCO background, pulling rank on Bienemy and installing a new fucking offense this offseason.
Of course, they don't FUCKING PRACTICE anymore and don't even play in the preseason, so...I guess you either just show up and run what you run or put in the time during off hours, idk.
I don't understand HOW it got so far away, because the only thing about this offense they're running that correlates with the WCO is the terminology, like everything in the teens would be runs, but in the Walsh/Holmgren system, there would be red (split, pro set backs), blue (nearside offset I) or brown (far offset I) like Red 18 Power O. I have zero clue what Reid's personnel groupings would be called, because he rarely uses use two backs. We're all familiar with 2-3 Jet Chip WASP? The real call would have to be something like 23 Spread Right 2-3 Y Jet Chip X WASP - the 2-3 is the protection scheme in that one, the 20s in the numbering system are passes, iirc in both 22 and 23 are 6 man slide protections where the fullback releases to the strongside, the strongside guard has a double read, and the halfback protects weakside and releases behind the defender once the QB has dropped IF HE CAN. The QB can change 2 Jet to 3 Jet (and Vice Versa - those are what people are hearing when they think he's "Calling audibles", he's not - he's just changing the protection) The rest of the numbers AFTER the initial numbers that tell you if it's a run or pass that aren't protections (like 2-3 is the protection) will give each receiver their depth, and the letters are which receiver runs what pattern (ie X WASP means the X reciever runs the WASP pattern)
Calling "Scat" in a play (ie 23 SCAT Chip WASP) tells the blocking back to release instead of staying into protect (other offenses might call that "all go", but in the traditional WCO terminolgy, it's "scat". Which is another word for poop.)
But I'm seeing none of the "Hi-Lo" concepts of the 5 step drops that were a staple of Bill Walsh (and Mike Holmgren's) WCO, nor the "protect the QB is first priority" that was the foundation of what Bill Walsh did when he devised that shit around Kenny Anderson in Cincy back in the 70s. What made Walsh's offense so different was that, in a rarity for those days, they didn't just pass to set up the run, but replaced the run in an effort to manage situational football—a significant aspect of football—better. Which is also something that Reid doesn't do anymore. Just pass happy. It's not situational; it's just what they do. It's not...cerebral.
Like some of the concepts are the same, I just have a hard time recognizing them. The hanging the QB out to dry has to change, tho. And that can be rectified, again, by going back to the Walsh/Holmgren model :
Originally Posted by :
Bill used flat backs, even backs in the backfield, whether they were split backs or what he would call brown or blue, and most teams as the 80s brought on more I-backs in college football, more backs in college ran the ball from the I. Bill never really wavered from flat backs. He always had what he looked for in a back, the Ricky Waters, Roger Craigs, etc. It's different, plays are read out differently by the running backs in these types of backfield sets, as opposed to from the I when the back is at seven yards deep. Also, what it allows you to do is involve more two-back, pre-releases by the backs into the routes. So, what people do nowadays is instead of having two backs in the backfield with one of them running the corner route, now they just split a receiver out and have him run the corner route, but it's the same principles."
- Greg Roman to random NBC writer when Harbaugh coached the 49ers
The concepts that are missing are balance, cohesion, protection, and precision. Walsh attacked defenses and used motion to gain matchups and attack the defense, not just see if it's man or zone.
Like, I don't take it personally, but I know enough to realize what I'm looking at, for real. Like, I'm not talking shit when I say "Give me a month and I could coach for Andy Reid." I absolutely can. Belize it.
it's not that I know MORE than him; he knows ALL this shit better than I ever could. I just think someone needs to remind him of the glorious history he has been a part of, and how that history could actually hold the key to his, Mahomes', and the Chiefs continued evolution. [Reply]
