ChiefsPlanet Mobile
Page 5 of 240
< 12345 67891555105 > Last »
Patteeu Memorial Political Forum>The Afghanistan lesson
El Lobo Gordo 12:33 AM 08-13-2021
Afghanistan is showing us that secular humanist societies are doomed to fall because they do not orientate the members of that society toward something that is "good".

I am not saying that the Taliban are good. I am saying that religion motivates people toward a singular purpose while secular humanism invites eventual death and destruction. The more the free west abdanons it judeo/christian faith, the more likely it is to fall.
[Reply]
NinerDoug 12:54 PM 08-13-2021
Originally Posted by El Lobo Gordo:
Its not economics. Secular societies have plenty of resources to support higher fertility rates. "Economics" is an excuse to use those resources toward more selfish ends.
If you are living in a hut in Africa, scratching a living out of the dirt, you will probably have lots of kids. Gives you insurance against starving to death once you can no longer provide for yourself.

If you are economically secure, Japan, for example, you may not have any interest in having lots of kids.

Or if you are a millennial, still living with your parents in your twenties, or a recently married young couple wondering if you will ever be able to afford to buy a house, you might not have kids at all, or you might just have one, maybe two.

Economics.

There is also, I would say, a cultural aspect. Some cultures place a higher value on the family than others, and in those cultures, kids are more numerous.

There's also education, about not having unwanted pregnancies.

There's also the fact that millennials are kind of fucked up, do all their socializing electronically, and not in person, and don't fuck as much as we in the older generations did at their age.

It's a complicated question, but the driving factor is economics, IMHO.
[Reply]
alpha_omega 12:57 PM 08-13-2021
Originally Posted by Ninerfan11:
Who cares about Afghanistan? ....
China.

Afghan party leader enumerates bloody and depraved legacies of US withdrawal, call for bigger role of China

China Preparing to Recognize Taliban if Kabul Falls: Sources

[Reply]
El Lobo Gordo 01:09 PM 08-13-2021
Originally Posted by NinerDoug:
If you are living in a hut in Africa, scratching a living out of the dirt, you will probably have lots of kids. Gives you insurance against starving to death once you can no longer provide for yourself.

If you are economically secure, Japan, for example, you may not have any interest in having lots of kids.

Or if you are a millennial, still living with your parents in your twenties, or a recently married young couple wondering if you will ever be able to afford to buy a house, you might not have kids at all, or you might just have one, maybe two.

Economics.

There is also, I would say, a cultural aspect. Some cultures place a higher value on the family than others, and in those cultures, kids are more numerous.

There's also education, about not having unwanted pregnancies.

There's also the fact that millennials are kind of ****ed up, do all their socializing electronically, and not in person, and don't **** as much as we in the older generations did at their age.

It's a complicated question, but the driving factor is economics, IMHO.
Sounds like you agree secular societies do have the economic resources to support higher fertility rates but choose to use those resources towards other ends. You call it economics though to make it sound less selfish. If you go back and read your own post though, a main theme of it is selfishness.

Secular societies will ultimately fail because they encourage people to be selfish.
[Reply]
BigBeauford 01:12 PM 08-13-2021
Originally Posted by El Lobo Gordo:
Sounds like you agree secular societies do have the economic resources to support higher fertility rates but choose to use those resources towards other ends. You call it economics though to make it sound less selfish. If you go back and read your own post though, a main theme of it is selfishness.

Secular societies will ultimately fail because they encourage people to be selfish.
It is selfish to bring a child into this world without having the resources to provide them with a good life.
[Reply]
El Lobo Gordo 01:24 PM 08-13-2021
Originally Posted by BigBeauford:
It is selfish to bring a child into this world without having the resources to provide them with a good life.
You had 2 children instead of 5 because you did not want to be "poor" even though poor people in the USA have a pretty good life. You made a calculated selfish decision.
[Reply]
BigBeauford 01:29 PM 08-13-2021
Originally Posted by El Lobo Gordo:
You had 2 children instead of 5 because you did not want to be "poor" even though poor people in the USA have a pretty good life. You made a calculated selfish decision.
I made a decision to live in the best neighborhood we could to send them to one of the top school districts in Kansas. After growing up in poverty, I wasn't about to make them go through what I did.
[Reply]
Pogue 01:50 PM 08-13-2021
Originally Posted by Mennonite:
The lesson is that Afghanistan and a good chunk of Pakistan should have been glassed on 9/12/2001.
Tactical nukes were discussed but the CIA was leading the charge for the invasion and decided on a different plan.
[Reply]
El Lobo Gordo 01:57 PM 08-13-2021
Originally Posted by BigBeauford:
I made a decision to live in the best neighborhood we could to send them to one of the top school districts in Kansas. After growing up in poverty, I wasn't about to make them go through what I did.
I do not believe growing up poor in the United States is a horrible thing to happen to a human being.
[Reply]
NinerDoug 02:02 PM 08-13-2021
Originally Posted by El Lobo Gordo:
Sounds like you agree secular societies do have the economic resources to support higher fertility rates but choose to use those resources towards other ends. You call it economics though to make it sound less selfish. If you go back and read your own post though, a main theme of it is selfishness.

Secular societies will ultimately fail because they encourage people to be selfish.
Are you saying that making the decision to not have kids is selfish?

I wanted four kids. I would guess that's because I grew up in a family with four kids. My wife wanted two kids. I would guess that's because she grew up in a family with two kids. We ended up with three.

I can't speak for my wife on this subject, but I certainly felt no moral imperative to have kids. I wanted kids because I can't imagine a life without them. To a certain extent, they make life worth living.

My mom basically grew up an only child, because her only sibling was her brother, nine years her senior, who joined the Merchant Marines at age 15. My grandfather was never in the picture, which would explain why there were only two kids.

My Mom wanted six kids. Had to do with having grown up an only child.

It's a complicated question. Aside from Catholics, I don't think religion has a lot do with it.
[Reply]
BlackOp 02:06 PM 08-13-2021
Originally Posted by BDj23:
But some suits at Raytheon and Haliburton probably got rich so that's good I guess.
I hear the opiate market is booming in the US...seems like this was attempted to overthrow another government one time..
[Reply]
|Zach| 02:56 PM 08-13-2021
It is 1919. The world's most feared imperial military leaves Afghanistan in a disgrace that heralds its coming irrelevance. It is 1989. The world's most feared imperial military leaves Afghanistan in a disgrace that heralds its coming irrelevance. It is 2021. The world's most fe….
[Reply]
El Lobo Gordo 03:13 PM 08-13-2021
Originally Posted by NinerDoug:
Are you saying that making the decision to not have kids is selfish?

I wanted four kids. I would guess that's because I grew up in a family with four kids. My wife wanted two kids. I would guess that's because she grew up in a family with two kids. We ended up with three.

I can't speak for my wife on this subject, but I certainly felt no moral imperative to have kids. I wanted kids because I can't imagine a life without them. To a certain extent, they make life worth living.

My mom basically grew up an only child, because her only sibling was her brother, nine years her senior, who joined the Merchant Marines at age 15. My grandfather was never in the picture, which would explain why there were only two kids.

My Mom wanted six kids. Had to do with having grown up an only child.

It's a complicated question. Aside from Catholics, I don't think religion has a lot do with it.
Everyone is selfish and everyone does selfish things and makes selfish choices including highly religious people. Sometimes when everyone acts in their own self interest a tragedy of the commons occurs. The prisoner's dilemma is a classic thought experiment/example. The dilemma can be eliminated by the addition of a Godfather who implements a rule, "snitches sleep with the fishes".

Secular Humanism is doomed because there is no Godfather to implement a rule to stop a tragedy of the commons. For instance if every acted like Big Beauford, humanity goes extinct...it is literally just a matter of time. A fertility rate of 2.0 isn't enough to sustain a population(because sadly some children don't survive to adulthood). Can you honestly imagine a secular humanist society that outlaws birth control? Go forth and multiply needs to be a mandate instead of an option.

It traditionally has been more than just Catholics which prohibit birth control. Prior to the 1930 it was pretty much a tenant of all Christian sects. Religions themselves are in the process of being secularized and thus losing their ability to prevent these tragedies of the commons. If religions become completely secularized humanity is doomed.

Its not just birth control thing either. People will fight and die for a religion and won't fight and die for a secular government imposed upon them by some foreign powers. Religion is great at unifying people and getting them to make sacrifices they would not otherwise make.
[Reply]
BigBeauford 03:27 PM 08-13-2021
Unfettered breeding without a stable home environment is why we can't leave our doors unlocked, and why you lot keep saying the world is going to hell. Pick a stance.
[Reply]
El Lobo Gordo 03:35 PM 08-13-2021
Originally Posted by BigBeauford:
Unfettered breeding without a stable home environment is why we can't leave our doors unlocked, and why you lot keep saying the world is going to hell. Pick a stance.
My stance is secular humanism is leading humanity down the road to extinction. My reason for believing that is members of secular populations are failing to reproduce in sufficient numbers to sustain their populations. The math doesn't lie. Afghanistan shows me members of secular institutions won't do what it takes to insure the survival of the secular institution....they'll let it die rather than make the sacrifice.

If the world is going to hell its because people no longer fear God and not because of unfettered breeding. I never made a claim like that....that unfettered breeding is causing the world to go to hell. I don't even know where you got that from.
[Reply]
Mecca 03:43 PM 08-13-2021
Ah we're back to god..of course.
[Reply]
Page 5 of 240
< 12345 67891555105 > Last »
Up