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Nzoner's Game Room>Chiefs defensive discussion
O.city 08:17 AM 09-16-2021
So I understand the Browns are probably the best run team in the league. Do a great job scheme wise, have talent etc.

But why do the Chiefs struggle so much vs the run?

It's been years now. Whats the deal?
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St. Patty's Fire 08:58 AM 09-16-2021
I would say the defense is built to be particularly better against the pass just because of how our team is built overall - yea, people *say* that the run game/TOP is how to stop Mahomes, but really the only way to beat the Chiefs consistently is match us throw for throw, or have a top-3 DL and hope we have half our OL out. Teams trying to beat us with their running game are bringing a knife to a gun fight, and Veach knows this. Let the Browns have their 7 YPC, we'll just hit a 75 yard TD bomb to Tyreek to make your methodical drive a waste of time. Let the 9ers run all over us for 3 quarters, we'll just hit a 50 yard pass and flip the game on its head in an instant. And then when the Browns have to drive down the field to win late with the ball in Baker's hands, there's our D forcing the pick.

Obviously we've put some resources into making the run D at least somewhat acceptable, but I just don't see it ever being a strong point or true priority for this team as long as we have this offense. I wouldn't be that worried about it. They'll gel enough by the end of the year to do just enough to get by, IMO.
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O.city 09:01 AM 09-16-2021
I thought that too years prior. But you can't just get gashed vs the run. It just won't work out.
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Kman34 09:09 AM 09-16-2021
I thought Reed was supposed to be a stud run stuffer??? I expect to be better against more average running teams…
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St. Patty's Fire 09:13 AM 09-16-2021
Originally Posted by O.city:
I thought that too years prior. But you can't just get gashed vs the run. It just won't work out.
We were playing probably the best running team in the league without Clark and Mathieu, not to mention Gay. It was never gonna be pretty. Those dudes up front for Cleveland are gonna bulldoze through most teams' fronts. I would hope we'd do a little better if we see them in the playoffs, but i wouldn't expect to just totally stymie them there. We just need to force them into passing situations more than anything, and when Baker had to throw to win, he lost.
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ModSocks 09:13 AM 09-16-2021
I was watching clips last night and came away with the conclusion that this defense really missed Frank Clark.

The Browns ran at Clark's side repeatedly. Seemingly several of their big runs came off that side. They attacked that side all damn day in the run game.
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DJ's left nut 09:17 AM 09-16-2021
Originally Posted by Kman34:
I thought Reed was supposed to be a stud run stuffer??? I expect to be better against more average running teams…
It's kinda similar to saying "I thought the Browns rebuilt their defense to stop the Chiefs offense in the off-season" and deciding all those efforts were pointless.

The Chiefs offense is really damn good at throwing the football. Then you go out there with a bunch of brand new guys who, on paper, should be upgrades in pass coverage but still struggle because - again - the Chiefs are damn good at throwing the football.

It doesn't mean your pass defense is trash. It means you were running a new group of guys against arguably the toughest possible test they could face. A matchup that's going to be tough late in the season, let alone early. Because they're just good at what they do.

The Browns right now are in many ways to running the football what the Chiefs are to throwing it. Shitting on a defense because it didn't slam the door on an elite run-game is a little harsh.
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DJ's left nut 09:18 AM 09-16-2021
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
I was watching clips last night and came away with the conclusion that this defense really missed Frank Clark.

The Browns ran at Clark's side repeatedly. Seemingly several of their big runs came off that side. They attacked that side all damn day in the run game.
The Chiefs could use a premier run defender opposite of Chris Jones.

I'm not sure what that has to do with Frank Clark.
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O.city 09:19 AM 09-16-2021
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
It's kinda similar to saying "I thought the Browns rebuilt their defense to stop the Chiefs offense in the off-season" and deciding all those efforts were pointless.

The Chiefs offense is really damn good at throwing the football. Then you go out there with a bunch of brand new guys who, on paper, should be upgrades in pass coverage but still struggle because - again - the Chiefs are damn good at throwing the football.

It doesn't mean your pass defense is trash. It means you were running a new group of guys against arguably the toughest possible test they could face. A matchup that's going to be tough late in the season, let alone early. Because they're just good at what they do.

The Browns right now are in many ways to running the football what the Chiefs are to throwing it. Shitting on a defense because it didn't slam the door on an elite run-game is a little harsh.
I was really impressed with Stefanski and that offense. He had it humming and their OL was doing alot of cool shit. We sit down in section 211 so I had the "ALL 22" ish endzone view of it. It was really impressive.

Run D is somewhat similar to offensive line play. Everything has to kind of add up to a certain sum for it to work. One guy takes a false step or something, especially against that OL and those RB's and it's opening the flood gates.
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ModSocks 09:21 AM 09-16-2021
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
The Chiefs could use a premier run defender opposite of Chris Jones.

I'm not sure what that has to do with Frank Clark.
Well, they exploited some young guys on that left side, where Clark would normally occupy. Clark has been a disappointment, but at the very least he set the edge in the run game well.

That was clearly lacking and the Browns attacked it.
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Hog's Gone Fishin 09:43 AM 09-16-2021
Other teams need to keep up with Mahomes and our O. Not worried about run defense that much.
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JPH83 09:47 AM 09-16-2021
Originally Posted by Kman34:
I thought Reed was supposed to be a stud run stuffer??? I expect to be better against more average running teams…
With hindsight I think his signing has been overhyped a little. He's been decent against the run but not elite and his pass rushing has gone backwards in recent years from what I've seen/heard. I was still surprised at how poor he looked though, but the Browns OL is legit.

So i guess as others have said it's a combo - Danna being a small DE and being manhandled a bit, Jones' naivety in the position, and every DI guy not really fronting up. I also think they need to focus on Wharton being a situational pass rusher not a run stuffer. Nnadi looked off the pace, maybe a bit undercooked. For his limited snaps I preferred the look of Saunders to Reed to be honest.
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bobhill 09:54 AM 09-16-2021
They held chubby to 83 yards a khunt to 33 yards that's a win
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Direckshun 09:59 AM 09-16-2021
Originally Posted by Kman34:
I thought Reed was supposed to be a stud run stuffer??? I expect to be better against more average running teams…
They didn't run at him a ton, really.
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RealSNR 10:18 AM 09-16-2021
In the past, I think crap LBs were a part of our struggles. They're not everything, and you don't need a lineup of all pros to be good at stopping the run, and they're not as important as the DL, but in terms of decently reliable starters from year to year, the only constant thus far has been Hitchens. That's probably not good enough.

The Chiefs run defense improved a lot in the back end of 2019 partly because Ragland started coming into his own in the 4-3 and was actually playing pretty dang well. He was a bigger dude who wasn't the fastest but nor did he lumber around like an ox. He gave us that extra guy past the DL who was good at identifying the gaps and getting them filled.

I think just having some decent LBs around will hopefully fix some of our issues. Bolton I think played well and will keep improving, and if Gay is what we thought he could be during the preseason and he stays healthy, we should see a decent improvement throughout the season and beyond.
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smithandrew051 10:39 AM 09-16-2021
Originally Posted by bobhill:
They held chubby to 83 yards a khunt to 33 yards that's a win
Had anyone offered us that before the game, we ALL would’ve taken it.

Cleveland’s rushing stats were a bit inflated from 30+ yards in runs by WRs. I don’t think those are necessarily indicative of the run defense.

Let’s get healthy and see how we do against a more typical rushing team. Then we can judge.

The run defense is absolutely better than it was a few years ago. Rewatch a few games from 2018 and you’ll see it immediately. The tackling was horrible and the line was getting pushed back 2-3 yards almost every play. Many plays were worse.
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