Originally Posted by Bwana:
Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.
Originally Posted by Dartgod:
People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.
We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.
Thanks!
Click here for the original OP:
Spoiler!
Apparently the CoronaVirus can survive on a inanimate objects, such as door knobs, for 9 days.
California coronavirus case could be first spread within U.S. community, CDC says
By SOUMYA KARLAMANGLA, JACLYN COSGROVE
FEB. 26, 2020 8:04 PM
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is investigating what could be the first case of novel coronavirus in the United States involving a patient in California who neither recently traveled out of the country nor was in contact with someone who did.
“At this time, the patient’s exposure is unknown. It’s possible this could be an instance of community spread of COVID-19, which would be the first time this has happened in the United States,” the CDC said in a statement. “Community spread means spread of an illness for which the source of infection is unknown. It’s also possible, however, that the patient may have been exposed to a returned traveler who was infected.”
The individual is a resident of Solano County and is receiving medical care in Sacramento County, according to the state Department of Public Health.
The CDC said the “case was detected through the U.S. public health system — picked up by astute clinicians.”
Officials at UC Davis Medical Center expanded on what the federal agency might have meant by that in an email sent Wednesday, as reported by the Davis Enterprise newspaper.
The patient arrived at UC Davis Medical Center from another hospital Feb. 19 and “had already been intubated, was on a ventilator, and given droplet protection orders because of an undiagnosed and suspected viral condition,” according to an email sent by UC Davis officials that was obtained by the Davis Enterprise.
The staff at UC Davis requested COVID-19 testing by the CDC, but because the patient didn’t fit the CDC’s existing criteria for the virus, a test wasn’t immediately administered, according to the email. The CDC then ordered the test Sunday, and results were announced Wednesday. Hospital administrators reportedly said in the email that despite these issues, there has been minimal exposure at the hospital because of safety protocols they have in place.
A UC Davis Health spokesperson declined Wednesday evening to share the email with The Times.
Since Feb. 2, more than 8,400 returning travelers from China have entered California, according to the state health department. They have been advised to self-quarantine for 14 days and limit interactions with others as much as possible, officials said.
“This is a new virus, and while we are still learning about it, there is a lot we already know,” Dr. Sonia Angell, director of the California Department of Public Health, said in a statement. “We have been anticipating the potential for such a case in the U.S., and given our close familial, social and business relationships with China, it is not unexpected that the first case in the U.S. would be in California.”
It is not clear how the person became infected, but public health workers could not identify any contacts with people who had traveled to China or other areas where the virus is widespread. That raises concern that the virus is spreading in the United States, creating a challenge for public health officials, experts say.
“It’s the first signal that we could be having silent transmission in the community,” said Lawrence Gostin, director of the World Health Organization Collaborating Center on National and Global Health Law. “It probably means there are many more cases out there, and it probably means this individual has infected others, and now it’s a race to try to find out who that person has infected.”
On Tuesday, the CDC offered its most serious warning to date that the United States should expect and prepare for the coronavirus to become a more widespread health issue.
“Ultimately, we expect we will see coronavirus spread in this country,” said Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. “It’s not so much a question of if, but a question of when.”
According to the CDC’s latest count Wednesday morning, 59 U.S. residents have tested positive for the new strain of coronavirus — 42 of whom are repatriated citizens from a Diamond Princess cruise. That number has grown by two since Messonnier’s last count Tuesday, although the CDC was not immediately available to offer details on the additional cases.
More than 82,000 cases of coronavirus have been reported globally, and more than 2,700 people have died, with the majority in mainland China, the epicenter of the outbreak.
But public health leaders have repeatedly reminded residents that the health risk from the novel coronavirus to the general public remains low.
“While COVID-19 has a high transmission rate, it has a low mortality rate,” the state Department of Public Health said in a statement Wednesday. “From the international data we have, of those who have tested positive for COVID-19, approximately 80% do not exhibit symptoms that would require hospitalization. There have been no confirmed deaths related to COVID-19 in the United States to date.”
CDC officials have also warned that although the virus is likely to spread in U.S. communities, the flu still poses a greater risk.
Gostin said the news of potential silent transmission does not eliminate the possibility of containing the virus in the U.S. and preventing an outbreak.
“There are few enough cases that we should at least try,” he said. “Most of us are not optimistic that that will be successful, but we’re still in the position to try.”
This isn't at all an attempt at putting together a manifesto to send people, but here's where I generally land on everything. Mostly just a train of consciousness, but maybe Ill refine it at some point.
You're not an idiot for being little skeptical of a new medical treatment. There is plenty of history around drugs that ended up doing more harm than good. However, vaccines have never been in that category (despite the fact that those who are convinced otherwise are really loud about it). Vaccines just give your immune system a blueprint of what the virus looks like so that they can be on the lookout for it. And once the blueprint is delivered, the vaccine itself disappears.
Similarly, we have never had a vaccine that started showing side effects months or years later. Every side effect of concern happens quickly or not at all. But there ARE some possible side effects. A vast majority of them are just feeling shitty for a day or two. There have been some more major cases (mostly blood clotting), but they're extremely rare, and we now know what to look for and how to treat those issues if they do occur. We otherwise have no historical precedent for a vaccine causing side effects months later. Combine that with the fact that these vaccines have been in testing for over a year now, and it would be completely unprecedented for major issues to occur at this point.
A vaccine doesn't actually keep COVID out of your body - it just helps your body to fight it off. That means that some vaccinated people will test positive without being symptomatic, some people will have mild symptoms, and some people might even have to be hospitalized (or, in a worst-case scenario, even die). But for all of those cases, the vaccine makes the situation a little better. Some people who might have had mild symptoms end up with no symptoms at all (and are less likely to pass it on since they aren't coughing and sneezing all over the place). Some people who might have been hospitalized end up with only mild symptoms. Some people who might have died are able to fight it off in the hospital. The few who die would have died without the vaccine. The vaccine isn't guaranteed to prevent all bad scenarios, but it's pretty much guaranteed to make every infection better.
Just in general, it's completely indisputable at this point that you're better off with the vaccine than without (and it's not close). In every state in the country, 95%+ of those hospitalized with COVID are unvaccinated. Every study we have done shows the impacts of the vaccine on infection rates clearly. There's just no rational debate here. Your chances of illness, hospitalization, and death are all much, much higher if you don't get the vaccine.
All that said, your chances of serious illness from COVID are indeed pretty low if you're a healthy individual. That's where a bit of societal perspective really would go a long way. If we filled up Arrowhead Stadium and said "Here's the deal. Either everyone gets a vaccine shot on the way out the door or ~100 people have to die." Sure, someone might die from a car wreck on the way home or have a heart attack, but does that really mean we shouldn't try and save the others?
Relatedly, if your take is "I'm not worried about COVID," why are you worried about the vaccine? Or if you just don't want to do it out of apathy or whatever, isn't it worth a little effort to try and get back to normal as quickly as possible? Aren't you sick of dealing with capacity restrictions, debates about masks, events being cancelled, and just in general having shit for entertainment because no one can get things done or go anywhere? Not to mention our entire healthcare system is messed up because our doctors and nurses are getting overloaded and burned out from dealing with COVID. There's an easy ticket out of this, and it only takes a couple hours of your time.
Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar:
There are plenty of medical professionals/experts voicing their concerns about the safety of the vaccines and trying to reach a wider audience. Plenty more who are worried about their careers.
There are obviously more reasons to keep your mouth shut than to publicly challenge the narrative. The response is the equivalent of this thread plus career suicide. Not exactly shocking that many throw up their hands and say fuck it.
One can voice concerns and not be a nut about it [Reply]
Originally Posted by DaFace:
This isn't at all an attempt at putting together a manifesto to send people, but here's where I generally land on everything. Mostly just a train of consciousness, but maybe Ill refine it at some point.
You're not an idiot for being little skeptical of a new medical treatment. There is plenty of history around drugs that ended up doing more harm than good. However, vaccines have never been in that category (despite the fact that those who are convinced otherwise are really loud about it). Vaccines just give your immune system a blueprint of what the virus looks like so that they can be on the lookout for it. And once the blueprint is delivered, the vaccine itself disappears.
Similarly, we have never had a vaccine that started showing side effects months or years later. Every side effect of concern happens quickly or not at all. But there ARE some possible side effects. A vast majority of them are just feeling shitty for a day or two. There have been some more major cases (mostly blood clotting), but they're extremely rare, and we now know what to look for and how to treat those issues if they do occur. We otherwise have no historical precedent for a vaccine causing side effects months later. Combine that with the fact that these vaccines have been in testing for over a year now, and it would be completely unprecedented for major issues to occur at this point.
A vaccine doesn't truly keep COVID out of your body - it just helps your body to fight it off. That means that some people will test positive without being symptomatic, some people will have mild symptoms, and some people might even have to be hospitalized (or, in a worst-case scenario, even die). But for all of those cases, the vaccine makes the situation a little better. Some people who might have had mild symptoms end up with no symptoms at all (and are less likely to pass it on since they aren't coughing and sneezing all over the place). Some people who might have been hospitalized end up with only mild symptoms. Some people who might have died are able to fight it off in the hospital. The few who die would have died without the vaccine. The vaccine isn't guaranteed to prevent all bad scenarios, but it's pretty much guaranteed to make every infection better.
Just in general, it's completely indisputable at this point that you're better off with the vaccine than without (and it's not close). In every state in the country, 95%+ of those hospitalized with COVID are unvaccinated. Every study we have done shows the impacts of the vaccine on infection rates clearly. There's just no rational debate here. Your chances of illness, hospitalization, and death are all much, much higher if you don't get the vaccine.
All that said, your chances of serious illness from COVID are indeed pretty low if you're a healthy individual. That's where a bit of societal perspective really would go a long way. If we filled up Arrowhead Stadium and said "Here's the deal. Either everyone gets a vaccine shot on the way out the door or ~100 people have to die." Sure, someone might die from a car wreck on the way home or have a heart attack, but does that really mean we shouldn't try and save the others?
Relatedly, if your take is "I'm not worried about COVID," why are you worried about the vaccine? Or if you just don't want to do it out of apathy or whatever, isn't it worth a little effort to try and get back to normal as quickly as possible? Aren't you sick of dealing with capacity restrictions, debates about masks, events being cancelled, and just in general having shit for entertainment because no one can get things done or go anywhere? Not to mention our entire healthcare system is messed up because our doctors and nurses are getting overloaded and burned out from dealing with COVID.
There's an easy ticket out of this, and it only takes a couple hours of your time.
Could use line spacing between points, but other than that this is just about perfect. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DaFace:
This isn't at all an attempt at putting together a manifesto to send people, but here's where I generally land on everything. Mostly just a train of consciousness, but maybe Ill refine it at some point.
You're not an idiot for being little skeptical of a new medical treatment. There is plenty of history around drugs that ended up doing more harm than good. However, vaccines have never been in that category (despite the fact that those who are convinced otherwise are really loud about it). Vaccines just give your immune system a blueprint of what the virus looks like so that they can be on the lookout for it. And once the blueprint is delivered, the vaccine itself disappears.
Similarly, we have never had a vaccine that started showing side effects months or years later. Every side effect of concern happens quickly or not at all. But there ARE some possible side effects. A vast majority of them are just feeling shitty for a day or two. There have been some more major cases (mostly blood clotting), but they're extremely rare, and we now know what to look for and how to treat those issues if they do occur. We otherwise have no historical precedent for a vaccine causing side effects months later. Combine that with the fact that these vaccines have been in testing for over a year now, and it would be completely unprecedented for major issues to occur at this point.
A vaccine doesn't truly keep COVID out of your body - it just helps your body to fight it off. That means that some people will test positive without being symptomatic, some people will have mild symptoms, and some people might even have to be hospitalized (or, in a worst-case scenario, even die). But for all of those cases, the vaccine makes the situation a little better. Some people who might have had mild symptoms end up with no symptoms at all (and are less likely to pass it on since they aren't coughing and sneezing all over the place). Some people who might have been hospitalized end up with only mild symptoms. Some people who might have died are able to fight it off in the hospital. The few who die would have died without the vaccine. The vaccine isn't guaranteed to prevent all bad scenarios, but it's pretty much guaranteed to make every infection better.
Just in general, it's completely indisputable at this point that you're better off with the vaccine than without (and it's not close). In every state in the country, 95%+ of those hospitalized with COVID are unvaccinated. Every study we have done shows the impacts of the vaccine on infection rates clearly. There's just no rational debate here. Your chances of illness, hospitalization, and death are all much, much higher if you don't get the vaccine.
All that said, your chances of serious illness from COVID are indeed pretty low if you're a healthy individual. That's where a bit of societal perspective really would go a long way. If we filled up Arrowhead Stadium and said "Here's the deal. Either everyone gets a vaccine shot on the way out the door or ~100 people have to die." Sure, someone might die from a car wreck on the way home or have a heart attack, but does that really mean we shouldn't try and save the others?
Relatedly, if your take is "I'm not worried about COVID," why are you worried about the vaccine? Or if you just don't want to do it out of apathy or whatever, isn't it worth a little effort to try and get back to normal as quickly as possible? Aren't you sick of dealing with capacity restrictions, debates about masks, events being cancelled, and just in general having shit for entertainment because no one can get things done or go anywhere? Not to mention our entire healthcare system is messed up because our doctors and nurses are getting overloaded and burned out from dealing with COVID.
There's an easy ticket out of this, and it only takes a couple hours of your time.
Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar:
There are plenty of medical professionals/experts voicing their concerns about the safety of the vaccines and trying to reach a wider audience. Plenty more who are worried about their careers.
There are obviously more reasons to keep your mouth shut than to publicly challenge the narrative. The response is the equivalent of this thread plus career suicide. Not exactly shocking that many throw up their hands and say fuck it.
No, there really aren't. There's a few individual quacks spewing misinformation. The problem is that misinformation then gets parroted by thousands and thousands of idiot twitter and Facebook sources. Making ignorant people actually think that there's plenty of medical professionals voicing concerns. Many people just gobble it up, because it confirms their bias. [Reply]
Might as well call it trolling at this point, nobody is that blind to logic and contradicting themselves.... or at least I choose to believe.
BigPharm has plenty of successful drugs, but what about the greed and that one lawsuit.
Covid has killed 630k Americans, but it's such a low risk.
70% of America has been vaccinated, but what about these 100 deaths.
CDC numbers can't be trusted, but what about this one guy in Ohio who posted on Facebook.
Thousands of docs are telling people to get vaccinated, but there's some conspiracy as to why.
Is there some kind of "go against the grain at all costs" syndrome? That's the only way this guy is real. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Bearcat:
Might as well call it trolling at this point, nobody is that blind to logic and contradicting themselves.... or at least I choose to believe.
BigPharm has plenty of successful drugs, but what about the greed and that one lawsuit.
Covid has killed 630k Americans, but it's such a low risk.
70% of America has been vaccinated, but what about these 100 deaths.
CDC numbers can't be trusted, but what about this one guy in Ohio who posted on Facebook.
Thousands of docs are telling people to get vaccinated, but there's some conspiracy as to why.
Is there some kind of "go against the grain at all costs" syndrome? That's the only way this guy is real.
Again, it seems painfully clear that these idiots simply don't understand numbers/orders of magnitude.
The "How Much is a Million?" children's book would blow their ****ing minds. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla:
Again, it seems painfully clear that these idiots simply don't understand numbers/orders of magnitude.
The "How Much is a Million?" children's book would blow their ****ing minds.
Yeah, math is hard. And I'm sure a lot of it is a matter of "being right", when there's clearly a difference between being right and doing the right thing... I could die of Covid tomorrow or it could come out that there's a decent vaccine risk of your pancreas growing legs and leaving your body, and neither would "prove" anything or make anyone "right".
You do what's right based on the information at the time, knowing that information might change... and when it comes to thing like FDA approval (you know, who's now the salt of the earth), you have to weigh the chance they would find that pancreas issue by themselves after millions vaccines have been given and millions of pancreases are safe inside their owner.
Of course, that's not the reason at all, but still. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DaFace:
This isn't at all an attempt at putting together a manifesto to send people, but here's where I generally land on everything. Mostly just a train of consciousness, but maybe Ill refine it at some point.
You're not an idiot for being little skeptical of a new medical treatment. There is plenty of history around drugs that ended up doing more harm than good. However, vaccines have never been in that category (despite the fact that those who are convinced otherwise are really loud about it). Vaccines just give your immune system a blueprint of what the virus looks like so that they can be on the lookout for it. And once the blueprint is delivered, the vaccine itself disappears.
Similarly, we have never had a vaccine that started showing side effects months or years later. Every side effect of concern happens quickly or not at all. But there ARE some possible side effects. A vast majority of them are just feeling shitty for a day or two. There have been some more major cases (mostly blood clotting), but they're extremely rare, and we now know what to look for and how to treat those issues if they do occur. We otherwise have no historical precedent for a vaccine causing side effects months later. Combine that with the fact that these vaccines have been in testing for over a year now, and it would be completely unprecedented for major issues to occur at this point.
A vaccine doesn't truly keep COVID out of your body - it just helps your body to fight it off. That means that some people will test positive without being symptomatic, some people will have mild symptoms, and some people might even have to be hospitalized (or, in a worst-case scenario, even die). But for all of those cases, the vaccine makes the situation a little better. Some people who might have had mild symptoms end up with no symptoms at all (and are less likely to pass it on since they aren't coughing and sneezing all over the place). Some people who might have been hospitalized end up with only mild symptoms. Some people who might have died are able to fight it off in the hospital. The few who die would have died without the vaccine. The vaccine isn't guaranteed to prevent all bad scenarios, but it's pretty much guaranteed to make every infection better.
Just in general, it's completely indisputable at this point that you're better off with the vaccine than without (and it's not close). In every state in the country, 95%+ of those hospitalized with COVID are unvaccinated. Every study we have done shows the impacts of the vaccine on infection rates clearly. There's just no rational debate here. Your chances of illness, hospitalization, and death are all much, much higher if you don't get the vaccine.
All that said, your chances of serious illness from COVID are indeed pretty low if you're a healthy individual. That's where a bit of societal perspective really would go a long way. If we filled up Arrowhead Stadium and said "Here's the deal. Either everyone gets a vaccine shot on the way out the door or ~100 people have to die." Sure, someone might die from a car wreck on the way home or have a heart attack, but does that really mean we shouldn't try and save the others?
Relatedly, if your take is "I'm not worried about COVID," why are you worried about the vaccine? Or if you just don't want to do it out of apathy or whatever, isn't it worth a little effort to try and get back to normal as quickly as possible? Aren't you sick of dealing with capacity restrictions, debates about masks, events being cancelled, and just in general having shit for entertainment because no one can get things done or go anywhere? Not to mention our entire healthcare system is messed up because our doctors and nurses are getting overloaded and burned out from dealing with COVID.
There's an easy ticket out of this, and it only takes a couple hours of your time.
This is terrific. Look forward to you having to write something similar again in about a month. [Reply]
