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Patteeu Memorial Political Forum>Minnesota's criminal justice fees often fall hardest on poor
displacedinMN 07:36 AM 05-02-2021
No shit sherlock. Maybe dont do crimes.

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This commentary Ugh

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[Reply]
cosmo20002 10:28 PM 05-02-2021
Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan27:
Crack cocaine gives a more intense high, but this explanation is nonsense. The upper class wouldn't be mugging people on the street or getting "back alley BJs" if they used the crack form of cocaine. You're smart enough to understand that correlation does not equal causation so I'm going to assume you're being intentionally dishonest here and are just hoping that nobody notices.
It's one of the dumbest fucking things babbly has ever 'explained,' which of course is saying a lot.
babbly acquires most info through TV shows, so I assume this is what babbly has gleaned from Hill Street Blues and other 80s cop shows.
[Reply]
cosmo20002 10:30 PM 05-02-2021
Originally Posted by Katipan:
Ach Baby you have a very romantic idea of what cocaine users are like.
LAMO no shit
It comes from babbly living a very sheltered life with most knowledge learned through TV shows.
[Reply]
Cave Johnson 03:42 AM 05-03-2021
Originally Posted by displacedinMN:
I dont do drugs.

Just stories of "This thing affects POC more so it is racist" :-)
Drug usage for whites vs. POCs is very similar.

Arrests and sentencing are vastly different.
[Reply]
Cave Johnson 03:46 AM 05-03-2021
Originally Posted by Baby Lee:
I already asked you what YOU were trying to assert.

'My' explanation is a recitation of the rationales of those who made the decision. I'm not asserting it as a better or worse rationale. I'm EXPLAINING it, as you asked.

Clearly you have criticism, so it seems incumbent that your criticism contain a superior strategy.

So should all mind-altering consumption be punished because the act itself is moral rot, or should all mind-altering consumption be unpunished, even if it leads some to rampant anti-social behavior? What alternative are you advocating?

Something I think you are hinting at that I haven't addressed is that the ancillary crimes that come with cheap and widely available drugs are not as amenible to effective prosecution as drug busts. If you have some fiend out there robbing people and doing break-ins, often within their family, you have problems of proof and the pain of testifying and the leniency on 'property crimes' that strip a lot of the consequences away from this anti-social behavior. But if someone is busted with crack, it's a good proxy for the things they did to get it and all that's involved is the law enforcement officer testifying to the apprehension and arrest, as opposed to some grandmama going to court to testify that her grandson stole that specific thing out of her house at this particular time and place, etc. etc. etc.
Crack is a proxy for being a bad, felonious person? GTFO with this Bell Curve, racist ass nonsense.

You’re a priggish pedant and a nutter.
[Reply]
Cave Johnson 03:52 AM 05-03-2021
Drugs won the war on drugs.

Time to declare victory and proverbially go home.
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Baby Lee 05:24 AM 05-03-2021
Originally Posted by Cave Johnson:
Crack is a proxy for being a bad, felonious person? GTFO with this Bell Curve, racist ass nonsense.

You’re a priggish pedant and a nutter.
You wanna be mad, be mad at Pond'o'Red for asking for the explanation.

Like I've said repeatedly, it's not my rationale. But it's an accurate summation of the rationale for the disparity.

Awful ironic as well that the same folks het up about the truth of the matter are the same ones who jab Livesteam for past drug use, constantly reminding him that in their opinion meth [or PCP?!?!?] is a proxy for a bad, felonious person.
[Reply]
Cave Johnson 07:58 AM 05-03-2021
Originally Posted by Baby Lee:
You wanna be mad, be mad at Pond'o'Red for asking for the explanation.

Like I've said repeatedly, it's not my rationale. But it's an accurate summation of the rationale for the disparity.

Awful ironic as well that the same folks het up about the truth of the matter are the same ones who jab Livesteam for past drug use, constantly reminding him that in their opinion meth [or PCP?!?!?] is a proxy for a bad, felonious person.
It was a horseshit reason at the time and has only gotten more threadbare over time?

Do you think there should be any sentencing disparity at all between coke and crack?

And as for Livestream, we just don’t like him. Hate the sin, despise the sinner.
[Reply]
Shields68 09:01 AM 05-03-2021
Originally Posted by POND_OF_RED:
Good luck with that. Joe can denounce his actions all he wants and act like he made a mistake, but everyone knows he’s played one of the biggest parts in the oppressive system. The sooner we all realize that systemic oppression is a huge American issue and not just a left and right issue we might actually make some progress in this country.
They would also gain more traction and probably less political if it was not stated in terms of race but rather in terms of economic class. Most all the problems that poor blacks have, poor whites have as well.

It is not the middle/rich class white people going to jail on drug charges It is not the middle class or Rich white people resisting arrest and being shot by police and yes white people are shot by police almost 2-1 more then black people.
[Reply]
Cave Johnson 09:11 AM 05-03-2021
Originally Posted by Shields68:
They would also gain more traction and probably less political if it was not stated in terms of race but rather in terms of economic class. Most all the problems that poor blacks have, poor whites have as well.

It is not the middle/rich class white people going to jail on drug charges It is not the middle class or Rich white people resisting arrest and being shot by police and yes white people are shot by police almost 2-1 more then black people.
The LBJ War on Poverty sales pitch is never a bad idea.
[Reply]
Snopes Hammer 09:39 AM 05-03-2021
Being Poor Is Expensive

The High Cost of Being Poor
[Reply]
HonestChieffan 10:34 AM 05-03-2021
Criminal justice is hardest on law breakers. That sucks for them.
[Reply]
POND_OF_RED 10:35 AM 05-03-2021
Originally Posted by Baby Lee:
I already asked you what YOU were trying to assert.

'My' explanation is a recitation of the rationales of those who made the decision. I'm not asserting it as a better or worse rationale. I'm EXPLAINING it, as you asked.

Clearly you have criticism, so it seems incumbent that your criticism contain a superior strategy.

So should all mind-altering consumption be punished because the act itself is moral rot, or should all mind-altering consumption be unpunished, even if it leads some to rampant anti-social behavior? What alternative are you advocating?

Something I think you are hinting at that I haven't addressed is that the ancillary crimes that come with cheap and widely available drugs are not as amenible to effective prosecution as drug busts. If you have some fiend out there robbing people and doing break-ins, often within their family, you have problems of proof and the pain of testifying and the leniency on 'property crimes' that strip a lot of the consequences away from this anti-social behavior. But if someone is busted with crack, it's a good proxy for the things they did to get it and all that's involved is the law enforcement officer testifying to the apprehension and arrest, as opposed to some grandmama going to court to testify that her grandson stole that specific thing out of her house at this particular time and place, etc. etc. etc.
I didn’t ask for a breakdown of the explanation of the law. I asked for someone to come up with a REASONABLE one now that we know more with hindsight and it seems no one can come up with a reason for crack and cocaine to carry different sentences without using the old Reagan retardation theory.

I love that you think those are the only two options to calming a drug crisis. Why not use the 3rd option we now know about with the opioid crisis and treat it as a medical crisis. Crack and Opiods have had similar effects on our community, yet one was seen as a medical crisis and the other was seen as a criminal justice crisis. Our attitude and acceptance of drugs depends solely on how it’s portrayed to us by the media.

As far as all your other rhetoric I’ll just leave it there to point out how crazy that Reagan rationale goes and break it down for people trying to connect your dots again from being all over the place. You’re trying to say that the law was justifiable because it allowed arrests without any victims needed? Solid rationale to cleaning up the streets. :-):-)
[Reply]
POND_OF_RED 10:54 AM 05-03-2021
Originally Posted by Shields68:
They would also gain more traction and probably less political if it was not stated in terms of race but rather in terms of economic class. Most all the problems that poor blacks have, poor whites have as well.

It is not the middle/rich class white people going to jail on drug charges It is not the middle class or Rich white people resisting arrest and being shot by police and yes white people are shot by police almost 2-1 more then black people.
The issue seems to be that you’re breaking this thread down into a race issue when it’s really not. The original articles are talking about the service and late processing court fees making it more difficult for the lower class and the crack and cocaine comparison is also just about classes. White lower class people were affected just as much with the bogus war on drugs, and subsequent crime bills.

The facts is, though, that systemic oppression in this country has kept the black community in the lower class with way more challenges that they’ve had to try and climb out of. That’s why your mind automatically correlated an upper class and lower class discussion to a race discussion.
[Reply]
POND_OF_RED 11:01 AM 05-03-2021
Originally Posted by RubberSponge:
You really think cocaine costs a lot?

I bet you could find a eighth of powder cocaine for $120 in almost in city in the united states. About the price of a half ounce of weed. Yep really expensive there.
One of those drugs can last you a couple weeks with constant use, and the other will last a weekend if you’re lucky. With an addict how much do you think $120 a day adds up to in a year? If you really don’t think that’s much than I think you’re having a hard time understanding the different classes we’re discussing here.
[Reply]
RubberSponge 11:26 AM 05-03-2021
Originally Posted by POND_OF_RED:
One of those drugs can last you a couple weeks with constant use, and the other will last a weekend if you’re lucky. With an addict how much do you think $120 a day adds up to in a year? If you really don’t think that’s much than I think you’re having a hard time understanding the different classes we’re discussing here.
You don't have a clue. A lot of people smoke a half ounce on a weekend. I'll just leave that as that.

You really think poor don't use cocaine and the wealthy don't smoke crack?
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