ChiefsPlanet Mobile
Page 6 of 7
« First < 23456 7 >
Patteeu Memorial Political Forum>What will it take to be a Zero Carbon Country
displacedinMN 02:59 PM 04-30-2021
I read this as "Impossible"

Dont know what the politics is behind all of this-but it looks impossible to do without destroying the US farmland and killing the food supply in the process.

Hope you can read the article. There is also a twitter thread. All too long to copy.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2...alflow-organic

https://twitter.com/i/events/1388170793322909699
[Reply]
NinerDoug 11:21 AM 05-03-2021
Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower:
Meat ban, air conditioning ban... what ever could be next?


Except, neither the meat ban nor AC ban are actual things.
[Reply]
Fish 11:21 AM 05-03-2021
Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower:
Meat ban, air conditioning ban... what ever could be next?

:-) nobody is banning meat or air conditioning, you dope.
[Reply]
Discuss Thrower 11:24 AM 05-03-2021
Originally Posted by NinerDoug:
Except, neither the meat ban nor AC ban are actual things.
Ban or restricting the trade of / placing onerous taxes on components and necessary materials. Same thing, really.
[Reply]
Ninerfan11 11:29 AM 05-03-2021
Originally Posted by NinerDoug:
Except, neither the meat ban nor AC ban are actual things.
:-), look at this lemming.
[Reply]
ScareCrowe 11:51 AM 05-03-2021
Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower:
Ban or restricting the trade of / placing onerous taxes on components and necessary materials. Same thing, really.
And the "not real" ban on refrigerants has been going on for years (started a slow phase out some time in the 90's). They finally last year totally cut off production of CFC refrigerants & forced people to switch to HCFC, which they are now already talking about replacing.

The funny thing is what I keep hearing they're going to switch to is propane, which should be interesting when those units start to develop leaks.
[Reply]
NinerDoug 11:56 AM 05-03-2021
Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower:
Ban or restricting the trade of / placing onerous taxes on components and necessary materials. Same thing, really.
I believe there is a transition taking place, using different chemicals.

What are these trade restrictions and taxes you're referring to?
[Reply]
Discuss Thrower 12:00 PM 05-03-2021
Originally Posted by NinerDoug:
I believe there is a transition taking place, using different chemicals.

What are these trade restrictions and taxes you're referring to?
You find no semantic difference between a ban by decree on something and specifically using government power of taxation to increase the price of that same something beyond a price implied by supply and demand forces?


Spoiler!

[Reply]
NinerDoug 12:03 PM 05-03-2021
Originally Posted by NinerDoug:
Except, neither the meat ban nor AC ban are actual things.
Originally Posted by Ninerfan11:
:-), look at this lemming.
":-), look at this lemming" doesn't have a lot going for it in the way persuasiveness.

If you actually believe that meat and AC have been banned, you should make a visit to your local grocery store, where you will find both meat and AC.

You're a vegetarian, right? I suppose your lack of knowledge about the availability of meat is understandable. Sort of.
[Reply]
NinerDoug 12:06 PM 05-03-2021
Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower:
You find no semantic difference between a ban by decree on something and specifically using government power of taxation to increase the price of that same something beyond a price implied by supply and demand forces?


Spoiler!
A see zero evidence that either meat or AC will become unavailable on account of excessive government regulation or taxation.

Do you have some convincing evidence to the contrary?
[Reply]
Discuss Thrower 12:08 PM 05-03-2021
:-)
[Reply]
tatorhog 12:24 PM 05-03-2021
We're never advancing to anything beyond what we are. People are primitive. We still aren't even a type 1 civilization yet (if you look at the Karhashev scale). I doubt we ever will be. Actually advancing isn't on our radar. We'll continue to do what we currently are doing, different segments will find ways to profit off of winning arguments about a polarized viewpoint related to this. Wash rinse repeat.

The green push is a means for one segment to profit off of rewrapping bullshit in fancy new paper. At the end of the day, there is no actual new technology being created or achieved. All people are doing is fighting over which powerful side wins the argument and gets the cash in the short term.
[Reply]
ScareCrowe 12:28 PM 05-03-2021
Originally Posted by NinerDoug:
A see zero evidence that either meat or AC will become unavailable on account of excessive government regulation or taxation.

Do you have some convincing evidence to the contrary?
I have no knowledge of the meat situation, I work in HVAC so I can tell you AC isn't going away, it just keeps getting more expensive. They have been phasing out R-22 for years only to tell those people who switched that what they switched to is also bad for the environment & now they will need to get rid of that as well. (after doing the same thing with the old R-12 a few years prior)

Cost of R-22 has been artificially inflated due to EPA regulations to the point that it's a running joke around here that we should have bought a few pallets of the stuff 20 years ago & stored it as an investment. And has led to a lot of people having to replace units that otherwise would have been repairable but, due to the artificially inflated price of the freon the unit uses, it isn't cost effective to make the repair. And now they're already going to start inflating the replacement. You probably pay about 2 to 4 times what you would have to pay to replace an AC unit since they phased out R-22.

The law was put in place in 1993, it didn't start taking effect until 2003 & didn't affect the refrigerant used by the vast majority of AC units until 2010.
https://www.epa.gov/ods-phaseout/pha...ing-substances
[Reply]
NinerDoug 12:36 PM 05-03-2021
Originally Posted by ScareCrowe:
I have no knowledge of the meat situation, I work in HVAC so I can tell you AC isn't going away, it just keeps getting more expensive. They have been phasing out R-22 for years only to tell those people who switched that what they switched to is also bad for the environment & now they will need to get rid of that as well. (after doing the same thing with the old R-12 a few years prior)

Cost of R-22 has been artificially inflated due to EPA regulations to the point that it's a running joke around here that we should have bought a few pallets of the stuff 20 years ago & stored it as an investment. And has led to a lot of people having to replace units that otherwise would have been repairable but, due to the artificially inflated price of the freon the unit uses, it isn't cost effective to make the repair. And now they're already going to start inflating the replacement. You probably pay about 2 to 4 times what you would have to pay to replace an AC unit since they phased out R-22.

The law was put in place in 1993, it didn't start taking effect until 2003 & didn't affect the refrigerant used by the vast majority of AC units until 2010.
https://www.epa.gov/ods-phaseout/pha...ing-substances
Do you believe the concern about harm to the environment is justified? I have not read anything about it specifically.

I wonder if this is really any different than past regulations which were necessary, but painful to go through.

Smog equipment on automobiles in California comes to mind.
[Reply]
Bob Dole 12:51 PM 05-03-2021
Everyone will need to sit at home and eat government cheese, or move to population centers where everything can be reached on foot. Sounds like utopia!
[Reply]
Bob Dole 12:53 PM 05-03-2021
Originally Posted by ScareCrowe:
I have no knowledge of the meat situation, I work in HVAC so I can tell you AC isn't going away, it just keeps getting more expensive. They have been phasing out R-22 for years only to tell those people who switched that what they switched to is also bad for the environment & now they will need to get rid of that as well. (after doing the same thing with the old R-12 a few years prior)

Cost of R-22 has been artificially inflated due to EPA regulations to the point that it's a running joke around here that we should have bought a few pallets of the stuff 20 years ago & stored it as an investment. And has led to a lot of people having to replace units that otherwise would have been repairable but, due to the artificially inflated price of the freon the unit uses, it isn't cost effective to make the repair. And now they're already going to start inflating the replacement. You probably pay about 2 to 4 times what you would have to pay to replace an AC unit since they phased out R-22.

The law was put in place in 1993, it didn't start taking effect until 2003 & didn't affect the refrigerant used by the vast majority of AC units until 2010.
https://www.epa.gov/ods-phaseout/pha...ing-substances
R-12 was eliminated because the patent expired.
[Reply]
Page 6 of 7
« First < 23456 7 >
Up