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Saccopoo Memorial Draft Forum>The case for Tommy Tremble or any other high drafted TE.
The Franchise 07:40 PM 04-25-2021
We need an X WR. Iím not downplaying that by any means. And I wouldnít be surprised to see them draft one at either 58 or 63. But will there be one of the highly rated WRs available.

By the time we get to 58....Dyami Brown, Tylan Wallace, Nico Collins or Amon Ra St Brown could be gone.

And if we stay at 58 or 63.....we arenít drafting again until 144.

Why not draft a top TE if one is there and have Kelce be our X for all intents and purposes. Move him around and let Tremble or Long play the typical TE position.

Just a thought.

Feel free to roast me.
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Stryker 09:16 PM 04-25-2021
2 second round picks. My first thought is a CB and a Safety. To get a Tommy Tremble, you would have to sacrifice both seconds and a 2022 3rd or 2nd round pick to get him. My question is... How VALUABLE is Tommy Tremble?
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Kellerfox 09:25 PM 04-25-2021
I trust Veach's and the scouts' evaluations. If they see a talented TE they think can enable/warrant us running a significant amount of 12 personnel then I'm all for it. I'm not for spending a 2nd on a TE if they will truly be a backup and only see the field for ~10% of our snaps.

If we could clone Kelce (another TE who is above average at blocking and getting open) this offense would be damn near unstoppable in 12 personnel. Reid would go in dry on other teams with creative run formations and play calls to supplement our dynamic passing game. TBH, I'm almost more in love with the idea of a second skilled TE than an X receiver. That said, TE's are much harder to hit on and guys who can catch and block at an elite level are rare. It's much easier to find a capable X / #2 WR in the 2nd round. We have to get value from our picks (in general) to stay Super Bowl contenders... So again, I trust Veach to make the right call based on his evaluations.

I think Freirmuth, Tremble, and Long are all solid blockers who are also pass catchers that can get open in space. I think Jordan is more one dimensional being more of a pass catcher (IMO)... So I'd personally go with one of the first three of we take a TE.
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The Franchise 09:26 PM 04-25-2021
Originally Posted by Stryker:
2 second round picks. My first thought is a CB and a Safety. To get a Tommy Tremble, you would have to sacrifice both seconds and a 2022 3rd or 2nd round pick to get him. My question is... How VALUABLE is Tommy Tremble?
Uhhhh where the hell do you think Tremble is getting drafted?
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Kellerfox 09:45 PM 04-25-2021
Looks like we ran 12 personnel 18% of the time in 2020. 51% Run / 49% Pass on those plays. So a backup TE probably sees about 20% of our snaps.

Interesting data nugget: Mahomes completion % goes up the fewer the # of WRs on the field. That's intuitive because 12/21/22 typically are designed for run (so defenses adjust accordingly)... But still interesting none the less.
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el borracho 10:34 PM 04-25-2021
No to Kelce at the X position and no to using a 2nd round pick on a TE this year. Would love to see them grab Nick Eubanks later in the draft, but I wouldn't like to see them burn an early pick on a redundant player (DE, WR, and CB as notable exceptions to that "rule").
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htismaqe 09:08 AM 04-26-2021
Originally Posted by Kellerfox:
Looks like we ran 12 personnel 18% of the time in 2020. 51% Run / 49% Pass on those plays. So a backup TE probably sees about 20% of our snaps.

Interesting data nugget: Mahomes completion % goes up the fewer the # of WRs on the field. That's intuitive because 12/21/22 typically are designed for run (so defenses adjust accordingly)... But still interesting none the less.
I've said it several times already - I don't see the Chiefs investing in TE2 at all.

They don't use one, they don't really value one.

They don't even use TE2 to backup TE1. They kept RSJ on the PS all year last year in case Kelce went down. TE2 is going to be a JAG while Reid is here, it is what it is.
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Chris Meck 09:13 AM 04-26-2021
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
I've said it several times already - I don't see the Chiefs investing in TE2 at all.

They don't use one, they don't really value one.

They don't even use TE2 to backup TE1. They kept RSJ on the PS all year last year in case Kelce went down. TE2 is going to be a JAG while Reid is here, it is what it is.
I think to this point, you're right.

However, I think that Reid's best quality as an offensive mind is utilizing the talent on hand, finding the best ways to use it.

IF he had two really good TE's, he'd get them both on the field and find ways to scheme them the ball.

I'm not necessarily advocating for it; because we do really need to restock the WR position and feel like we should go WR with one of the second round picks.
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htismaqe 09:24 AM 04-26-2021
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
I think to this point, you're right.

However, I think that Reid's best quality as an offensive mind is utilizing the talent on hand, finding the best ways to use it.

IF he had two really good TE's, he'd get them both on the field and find ways to scheme them the ball.

I'm not necessarily advocating for it; because we do really need to restock the WR position and feel like we should go WR with one of the second round picks.
For sure, I can see the reasoning for getting a better TE2. I just don't think they see it that way.
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duncan_idaho 09:28 AM 04-26-2021
Originally Posted by Kellerfox:
Looks like we ran 12 personnel 18% of the time in 2020. 51% Run / 49% Pass on those plays. So a backup TE probably sees about 20% of our snaps.

Interesting data nugget: Mahomes completion % goes up the fewer the # of WRs on the field. That's intuitive because 12/21/22 typically are designed for run (so defenses adjust accordingly)... But still interesting none the less.
They ran it 28 percent of the time in 2018 and 2019, according to Sharp's Football Stats, and threw the ball a lot more in those sets than that.

If they plan to re-increase the usage of 12 sets I could see emphasizing TE2 more than they have. Something like that would make it worth spending a pick on Tremble or Jordan.
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The Franchise 09:28 AM 04-26-2021
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
For sure, I can see the reasoning for getting a better TE2. I just don't think they see it that way.
Maybe theyíre changing their offensive identity. Iím not saying Marty ball but more of an intermediate passing offense with the ability to run the ball more efficiently.
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htismaqe 09:39 AM 04-26-2021
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
Maybe theyíre changing their offensive identity. Iím not saying Marty ball but more of an intermediate passing offense with the ability to run the ball more efficiently.
You could certainly take a look at the OL they've brought in and make a case that they're evolving their offensive philosophy there. So yea, definitely possible.
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The Franchise 09:42 AM 04-26-2021
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
For sure, I can see the reasoning for getting a better TE2. I just don't think they see it that way.
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
You could certainly take a look at the OL they've brought in and make a case that they're evolving their offensive philosophy there. So yea, definitely possible.
I mean....we still have Hill. So weíre always going to be able to chuck it deep when we want. Maybe they want to run the type of offense we ran against Chicago in 2019.
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Chris Meck 10:09 AM 04-26-2021
I feel confident about a couple of things.

The offensive line rebuild will absolutely allow your offense to be more efficient. Fewer negative plays, being able to run the ball effectively when you want to, especially in short yardage/goal line.

It will also allow Mahomes more time to throw WITHIN THE SYSTEM and not have to go scramble drill as much. It might not be as exciting, but it IS more sustainable.

It's entirely possible that this offense may be more efficient AND less exciting, with fewer bomb TD's and highlight reel Mahomes magic.

If defenses cannot drop 7 or 8 and we can make them pay for not defending the run, we will eat them alive. If they can't get to Mahomes with 4, we will eat them alive, even trotting Drob and Pringle out there. If defenses decide to try that anyway, then Clyde will run for 6ypc and we'll just grind them into the dirt.

We should be able to force defenses to defend EVERYTHING now.

It's good times, boys.
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duncan_idaho 10:35 AM 04-26-2021
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
I feel confident about a couple of things.

The offensive line rebuild will absolutely allow your offense to be more efficient. Fewer negative plays, being able to run the ball effectively when you want to, especially in short yardage/goal line.

It will also allow Mahomes more time to throw WITHIN THE SYSTEM and not have to go scramble drill as much. It might not be as exciting, but it IS more sustainable.

It's entirely possible that this offense may be more efficient AND less exciting, with fewer bomb TD's and highlight reel Mahomes magic.

If defenses cannot drop 7 or 8 and we can make them pay for not defending the run, we will eat them alive. If they can't get to Mahomes with 4, we will eat them alive, even trotting Drob and Pringle out there. If defenses decide to try that anyway, then Clyde will run for 6ypc and we'll just grind them into the dirt.

We should be able to force defenses to defend EVERYTHING now.

It's good times, boys.
Indeed it is. It really is going to place defenses back in the damned do/damned don't situation.

Oh, you think you can play dime and control the run with your front four (Chargers)? Not anymore, chumps.

Oh, you're going to blitz? (Laughter and big plays ensue)

Oh, you're going to play a deep zone and never get to Mahomes with your front 4? (Mahomes kills intermediate area/LB with patience)
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Wilson8 12:29 PM 04-27-2021
I'd love for the Chiefs to be able to draft a good second TE, but I don't think it will happen.

1. Travis Kelce - Five 1,000 yard plus seasons with 1,416 last year. He shows no signs of slowing down. With the eight seasons Travis has played, Chiefs have never brought in competition for any of Kelce's targets.

2. KC only has six draft picks. When we had 3rd and 4th round draft pick, it seemed like a possibility to use a 3rd on a TE.

3. If Chiefs really want another TE to go with Travis and Blake Bell, there are still some possibilities on the free agent market.
Trey Burton - Age 29, 2018 54 REC, 569 yards, 6 TDs and had 28 REC, 250 yards, 3 TDs last year.
Jesse James - Age 27, Had 3 good seasons in Pittsburgh from 2016 to 2018. Two Detroit seasons, not so good.
Richard Rodgers - Age 29, 24 REC, 345 yards, 2 TD, 77.4% catch rate last season for the Philadelphia Eagles.
Tyler Eifert - Age 30, (2019) 43 REC, 436 yards, and 3 TDs. (2020) 36 REC, 349 yards, and 2 TD. Former 1st round pick out of Notre Dame is 6-6, 255 pounds and back in 2013 ran a 4.68 40.
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