Originally Posted by Direckshun:
I think the most surprising player that didn't live up to expectations was Kinlaw.
I was certain that guy was Chris Jones 2.0. Projecting defensive tackles is hard.
Rumors are his knee issue(s) are chronic.
He's simply never been healthy. He's shown flashes at times, but ultimately he appears to just be a brokedick.
Okudah is the really sore thumb here, IMO. A 3rd overall pick that got essentially dumped for a 3rd day pick. The Lions even ate some of his salary to move him.
There's not been much middle ground in this class, has there? Most of these guys have been excellent or complete crap. Or, y'know, dead or imprisoned. And really it's just a matter of time before Arnette (and probably Isaiah Wilson) ends up in one of those 2 categories as well.
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Rumors are his knee issue(s) are chronic.
He's simply never been healthy. He's shown flashes at times, but ultimately he appears to just be a brokedick.
Okudah is the really sore thumb here, IMO. A 3rd overall pick that got essentially dumped for a 3rd day pick. The Lions even ate some of his salary to move him.
There's not been much middle ground in this class, has there? Most of these guys have been excellent or complete crap. Or, y'know, dead or imprisoned. And really it's just a matter of time before Arnette (and probably Isaiah Wilson) ends up in one of those 2 categories as well.
That draft class is just a shit-show.
Defensive tackle is so damn hard. There's more obstacles, I would argue, to that group not working out than any other grouping other than QB.
If you have an attitude problem, you're a bust risk. Many of them aren't hard workers. Many of them are athletes but no technique. Many of them are too small or short or can't get pad levels right. Many of them are huge injury risks like all positions, but they play a position that, like RB, is designed by the other side of the ball to attach and punish physically.
Just a really hard position to get a feel for. [Reply]
That's why I got it wrong on Jones. Or at least didn't see him as a slam-dunk 1st round talent.
I saw him coast in college. DTs with motor issues scare the absolute hell out of me because so much of being successful in that position is being willing to get your ass kicked and keep coming.
Those guys just get beat up so much down there and they just have to keep going. And too many of them simply won't do it.
And that issue gets to all the rest of their game. They don't work on their technique or pad level because "Man, why bother - I'm just gonna get smoked by double teams anyway..."
That's why Jones is so special. Play after play he's out there hunting and when the double DOESN'T come or isn't as effective, he's ready to take advantage of the opportunity. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
That's why I got it wrong on Jones. Or at least didn't see him as a slam-dunk 1st round talent.
I saw him coast in college. DTs with motor issues scare the absolute hell out of me because so much of being successful in that position is being willing to get your ass kicked and keep coming.
Those guys just get beat up so much down there and they just have to keep going. And too many of them simply won't do it.
And that issue gets to all the rest of their game. They don't work on their technique or pad level because "Man, why bother - I'm just gonna get smoked by double teams anyway..."
That's why Jones is so special. Play after play he's out there hunting and when the double DOESN'T come or isn't as effective, he's ready to take advantage of the opportunity.
Completely agree. And even good DTs will disappear for games and when you get a bad game out of a DT, it really kills your squad. You're just flushing money down the toilet.
But he never has one. His games are all plus games.
He's just a special athlete and I can't help but plug the Chiefs to draft DT every year in the 1st to help him out, but the risks are just always going to be there. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
Completely agree. And even good DTs will disappear for games and when you get a bad game out of a DT, it really kills your squad. You're just flushing money down the toilet.
But he never has one. His games are all plus games.
He's just a special athlete and I can't help but plug the Chiefs to draft DT every year in the 1st to help him out, but the risks are just always going to be there.
I'm probably not going 1st at DT often but it does make me wonder why it's such a devalued postion, or at least seems to be. I keep wanting us to approach it how we're approaching DBs and DEs - just throw numbers at it to make sure there's at least enough rotation.
The obvious answer is we, like a lot of teams, are loading up at DE and CB and so there's not the space for a collection of DTs. Maybe the other argument is just that BECAUSE the attrition rate is so high you're best going cheap FA. Maybe another factor is that because it's hard to draft, because there are so few quality pass-rushing DTs and fewer ways to win inside, it's a bigger gamble in the draft.
I dunno, I can talk myself into devaluing it, but then I think "quickest route to the QB" and see Jones' impact and it's hard not to imagine even just one other guy offering half of that, a quarter, whatever, and rotating in. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Rain Man:
Man, that Raiders draft. :-)
Is that Raiders draft the reason their team collapsed this past season?
I think you could make the argument.
What's amazing is that the 2020 draft was sterling for our Super Bowl hopes, but not in the way you expect:
No. 32 – Clyde Edwards-Helaire, RB (LSU)
No. 63 – Willie Gay, LB (Mississippi State)
No. 96 – Lucas Niang, OT (TCU)
No. 138 – L’Jarius Sneed, DB (Louisiana Tech)
No. 177 – Mike Danna, DE (Michigan)
No. 237 – BoPete Keyes, CB (Tulane)
UDFA: Yasir Durant, Tommy Townsend, Turk Wharton
We whiffed on two of our first three picks, but Veach crushed the rest of the draft so damn hard it's almost embarrassing. Sneed was our best corner, Danna a valuable cog in the passrush machine, Townsend was excellent down the stretch, especially in the AFCCG, and Durant was traded for a 7th that turned into Jaylen Watson.
I'm of the opinion that there's just no secret to nailing the third day + UDFAs. I think you just have to invest more and work harder to have a deeper, smarter draft board than everybody else.
It's interesting, because Veach kneecapped himself in 2020 with a bad start to the draft, but saved it by so thoroughly outworking the rest of the field that he helped build a Super Bowl squad in 2020 by crushing the third day of the draft.
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
Completely agree. And even good DTs will disappear for games and when you get a bad game out of a DT, it really kills your squad. You're just flushing money down the toilet.
But he never has one. His games are all plus games.
He's just a special athlete and I can't help but plug the Chiefs to draft DT every year in the 1st to help him out, but the risks are just always going to be there.
You mention Kinlaw - if there's a 5th round pick sort of trade to be made for him, I'd make it.
Kinlaw just rotating in for Jones on a few downs/gm; lets say 15-20, would be a damn fascinating experiment. Especially if some of those downs have Jones at DE.
But ultimately I don't think the 49ers dislike the guy - he just can't stay healthy. And usually that means they'll keep him and hope he can stay on the field. It's the work ethic/scheme fit guys that typically get dumped. Kinlaw doesn't seem to present any of those problems. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
You mention Kinlaw - if there's a 5th round pick sort of trade to be made for him, I'd make it.
Kinlaw just rotating in for Jones on a few downs/gm; lets say 15-20, would be a damn fascinating experiment. Especially if some of those downs have Jones at DE.
But ultimately I don't think the 49ers dislike the guy - he just can't stay healthy. And usually that means they'll keep him and hope he can stay on the field. It's the work ethic/scheme fit guys that typically get dumped. Kinlaw doesn't seem to present any of those problems.
I think they may have lost patience. Don't know if it's the injury but he's had a chance. That's a good coaching group and if they've not got anything from him I don't know if we will. I think he might just be a bust. [Reply]
