Posted it in the Justin Watson thread. Im not gonna cower behind the majority on this any longer.
Trey Palmer is a top 3 WR in this draft class.
There, i said it. IDGAF what anyone says, where he's slated to be drafted etc. He's a top 3 WR in this class. I'm dying on this hill. I've seen enough. I'm convinced. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
Posted it in the Justin Watson thread. Im not gonna cower behind the majority on this any longer.
Trey Palmer is a top 3 WR in this draft class.
There, i said it. IDGAF what anyone says, where he's slated to be drafted etc. He's a top 3 WR in this class. I'm dying on this hill. I've seen enough. I'm convinced.
Love the hot take, don't share your sentiment but who is your top 3 WR's? What about Trey Palmer do you like that puts him ahead of the guys regularly slated ahead of him?
I don't think Trey's ball skills are good enough to put him that high. If you were to say you'd rather have Trey later in the draft than Hyatt in the 1st round though, I think that's a reasonable statement. Their skillsets aren't too far apart, Hyatt I think showed much better ball skills and obviously produced in the SEC.
Trey and Hyatt are going to be tested in the NFL in similar areas though. Short area game, their ability to release with physical corners, making plays in tighter windows or contested catches- these are all questions that both Palmer and Hyatt are going to have to answer. I think Hyatt's tape shows that he is more likely to make those tougher catches, with the same game breaking ability.
Palmer to me is budget Hyatt but I love the discussion. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Shoes:
Love the hot take, don't share your sentiment but who is your top 3 WR's? What about Trey Palmer do you like that puts him ahead of the guys regularly slated ahead of him?
I don't think Trey's ball skills are good enough to put him that high. If you were to say you'd rather have Trey later in the draft than Hyatt in the 1st round though, I think that's a reasonable statement. Their skillsets aren't too far apart, Hyatt I think showed much better ball skills and obviously produced in the SEC.
Trey and Hyatt are going to be tested in the NFL in similar areas though. Short area game, their ability to release with physical corners, making plays in tighter windows or contested catches- these are all questions that both Palmer and Hyatt are going to have to answer. I think Hyatt's tape shows that he is more likely to make those tougher catches, with the same game breaking ability.
Palmer to me is budget Hyatt but I love the discussion.
Would love to have this conversation with you. I think Palmer is way ahead of Hyatt though in terms of what he's actually shown on the field.
Palmer made big plays in the SEC too, don't forget he originally played for LSU before xfering. Im going to copy and paste some posts i made earlier today.
Let me finish my work and i'll get into it a bit further.
But a quick answer: Palmer has already shown us everything we HOPE to see from Hyatt, has a better build and actually tested as fast as he looks.
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
You want a WR that can split the safety and CB and just blow past them with pure speed? Trey Palmer has shown he can do that.
You want a WR who can adjust to an underthrown ball, get vertical and snag it between two defenders? Trey Palmer has shown he can do that.
You want a WR who can reach down and pluck a ball off his shoe laces? Trey Palmer has shown he can do that.
You want a WR who can take a jet sweep, put on the burners and house it? Trey Palmer has shown he can do that.
You like WR's who can come in and play ST's, take kickoff's and house them? Trey Palmer has shown he can do that.
What's your flavor? Back shoulder throws? Vertical speed merchants? Trey Palmer has that.
Stick his foot in the ground and make someone look silly on a route? Ahem, Trey Palmer has shown us that too.
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
He's not a little juke machine, sure, but he's plenty fluid enough to make people miss and his acceleration reminds me a bit of Hardman, the way he's able to just rocket through a gap.
He has a number of plays where he takes a 1 yard pass and turns it into 10.
The route running stuff...no he's not perfect. But IDC. He's a fluid enough athlete to be good at it and be coached up.
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
You want a WR that can split the safety and CB and just blow past them with pure speed? Trey Palmer has shown he can do that. Agree, that is what Palmer is best at. Speed merchant who stresses the top of a defense.
You want a WR who can adjust to an underthrown ball, get vertical and snag it between two defenders? Trey Palmer has shown he can do that. Personally I think Trey has shown more often than not when the windows get tighter, and the coverage is a little stickier, that he doesn't excel in those situations. My biggest concern with Palmer is if his ball skills can improve in tighter situations, I don't agree with this assessment.
You want a WR who can reach down and pluck a ball off his shoe laces? Trey Palmer has shown he can do that. Disagree- I don't think Palmer's ball skills are very good. Hard to ignore the drops, seems to like to use his body to finish catches.
You want a WR who can take a jet sweep, put on the burners and house it? Trey Palmer has shown he can do that. Agree he has gadget potential in his game. His speed is hard to ignore, it's a weapon.
You like WR's who can come in and play ST's, take kickoff's and house them? Trey Palmer has shown he can do that. Absolutely agree that his special teams ability is a + for Palmer.
What's your flavor? Back shoulder throws? Vertical speed merchants? Trey Palmer has that. Again we agree, that's what Trey Palmer is, a vertical speed merchant. My question is purely if he can become more than a speed merchant. Is he Tedd Ginn Jr who needs to create big openings to be effective, or someone like Tyreek Hill who can develop the route running prowess, to leverage his speed to create separation at all areas of the field. If Palmer becomes either, he's a massive weapon. We've see a ton of very fast guys fail, again my concern is Trey's ball skills.
Stick his foot in the ground and make someone look silly on a route? Ahem, Trey Palmer has shown us that too. I'm mean maybe, but comparing him to the other WR prospects, I won't say Palmer's route running ability is superior. Most of these guys who are NFL prospects in the upper half of the draft have shown that they will make people look silly in the NCAA. Diving deeper in the details- when Palmer's running his routes and coming into a cut, to me he shows that his pad level rises a bit too much. This is taught pretty early on with receivers that this is a dead giveaway to DB's that a change of direction is incoming. Palmer needs to improve this right away, it's a dead tell and will get exposed. His speed is only going to be effective if DB's can't determine if he's going to run by them or if he's running an intermediate route. Again it relates to the Tyreek comment above, Trey needs to rely on his speed early to open up other areas of the field for him.
On top of that though, I also don't see the suddenness when coming into and out of those intermediate routes. He doesn't stop his momentum fast enough and he doesn't get out of the break as quick as other prospects in this draft. For example I think Zay Flowers ability to stop, change direction and get out of his cut is way better.
His speed is going to give him an advantage over other receivers to excel in the NFL, but he's got to get much better at the fine details to become a much more complete receiver.
Commented on your post above- god I love talking ball and receivers specifically.
For the record I hope Trey proves you right and me wrong, appreciate the convo. [Reply]
@ 2:09. Good exmaple of Trey changing up his speed and using quickness to create seperation. Granted, defender gets caught looking the wrong direction. Trey's speed allows him to tack on an additional 8-10 yards after the catch.
@ 2:49 A solid example of Trey being able to turn upfield and yet again squeeze more yardage out of a short throw. Very Hardman-like in that regard.
@ 4:38 (one of my favorites here). Trey shows the speed to blow by the CB, then adjusts to an underthrown ball to come down with a difficult catch in double coverage. Excellent example of concentration and ball skills. Maintains posession to the ground while the defender is all over him.
@5:25 An example of catching a slant in stride with a defender near/contesting. This is an NFL level catch IMO. It's the kind of stuff we see in the league.
@6:30 An excellent example of his ability in the screen game. Excellent pacing, sets up the blocks well and then just explodes through traffic and houses it.
@7:08 Nothing special here, but by this point you should pick up on a pattern here. When he gets the ball, he often picks up a few extra yards. It's a theme throughout, and should be noted. I understand there's a massive cushion here, but look at how he gets skinny on the sideline and grabs a few extra yards to get the 1st down.
@8:05 Excellent concentration. Gets low to scoop that ball off the ground with 3 defenders in the area. Again, NFL level catch.
@8:17 Again, a continuation of a theme here...getting that extra yardage.
@ 8:35 Fantastic Adjustment on the ball. High points it well and comes down with the contested catch.
@9:15 Gets hit stick'd and still maintains posession. Another NFL level catch.
@10:04 A good example of his shiftyness. Plays like these, to me, illustrate physical ability. That sort of shiftyness and twitch can be parlayed into improved routes
@ 10:22....there's that pattern again.....
@ 10:55....silky and sudden out of that break. Beats the DB across his face. Good route.
@ 11:29....look at him elevate to make that grab, maintains possession through the hit. NFL level catch.
@ 12:13 Comes back to the ball that's severly underthrown and scrapes it off the grass....
@ 14:15 Goddamn that's an NFL level catch. Comes back to ball, scrapes it off the ground with a DB all over him.
@ 14:32 Again, look at his elevation. Gets flipped upside down and still maintains possesion going to the ground. Yet another NFL level catch.
@ 16:04 C'mon now. Speed and explosion for days. That's a Mecole Hardman special. Again, look at his variances in speed. Excellent trait.
@ 17:39 AGAIN, being shifty, making guys miss, picking up extra yardage....That's NFL stuff.
@ 18:35 Nice route in the end zone, displays some suddenness coming out of his break, maintains posession while as the ball and defender collide on him at the same time-ish.
@20:45 Pretty good route to get the DB's hip to turn, then turns on the jets and it's adios. This route isn't so much about quickness as it about speed variances in his route. He's fucknig fantastic at that. [Reply]
You take all of that, combined with real 4.3 speed and good size at 6-0" 192lbs, and that's legitimate NFL WR.
And i would take Palmer all day long over Hyatt and twice on Sunday.
Most of the things we just watched Palmer do, that i pointed out, there's damn near zero examples of that in Hyatt's highlights. Little to no examples of him high pointing a ball or getting low, or adjusting in traffic or taking a big hit and maintaining possession. Really no examples of advanced route running or anything like that.
Everyone is just kinda hoping he can do all that, but we've never really seen him do it.
With Palmer, it's all right there. Take a look. [Reply]
I like Palmer in the middle rounds but he's got major questions with physical play and I only saw him make plays vertically at Nebraska he also had some dropsies. Think we need a guy who lines up outside that's why I like Flowers more than those guys [Reply]
Originally Posted by Titty Meat:
I like Palmer in the middle rounds but he's got major questions with physical play and I only saw him make plays vertically at Nebraska he also had some dropsies. Think we need a guy who lines up outside that's why I like Flowers more than those guys
You should revisit his film. He ran a lot more routes than verticals. Trey had a 13.8% drop rate, Zay Flowers had about a 10% drop rate. I'm not saying that Trey is a better receiver, but they aren't leagues apart in ability. If Trey can get better at running his routes properly, he could be baller. He's got all the athletic ability in the world and decent size. [Reply]
Originally Posted by kozzman555:
You should revisit his film. He ran a lot more routes than verticals. Trey had a 13.8% drop rate, Zay Flowers had about a 10% drop rate. I'm not saying that Trey is a better receiver, but they aren't leagues apart in ability. If Trey can get better at running his routes properly, he could be baller. He's got all the athletic ability in the world and decent size.
I probably have watched every snap of Nebraska football the last 5 years unfortunately. I actually just re-watched the Indiana game I wasn't scouting the draft tonight I was re-watching Thompson as he's competing for his job against another 4* transfer. What I noticed in that game particularly is Palmer did make some big plays in which took some time to develop.
Whipple pretty much ran a vertical offense though [Reply]
Originally Posted by kozzman555:
You should revisit his film. He ran a lot more routes than verticals. Trey had a 13.8% drop rate, Zay Flowers had about a 10% drop rate. I'm not saying that Trey is a better receiver, but they aren't leagues apart in ability. If Trey can get better at running his routes properly, he could be baller. He's got all the athletic ability in the world and decent size.
His vertical was 29.5, 3 cone was 7.13, and shuttle was 4.26.
I like the guy too. But these numbers are concerning. [Reply]
