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Nzoner's Game Room>***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***
JakeF 10:28 PM 02-26-2020
A couple of reminders...

Originally Posted by Bwana:
Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.
Originally Posted by Dartgod:
People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

[Reply]
Discuss Thrower 09:19 AM 05-18-2021
"The 60-Year-Old Scientific Screwup That Helped Covid Kill"


Spoiler!

[Reply]
MahomesMagic 09:28 AM 05-18-2021
Awesome!

Are you allowed to cry in the press box pic.twitter.com/3edGUaUVhs

— Sara Civ (@SaraCivian) May 18, 2021

[Reply]
DaFace 09:34 AM 05-18-2021
Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower:
"The 60-Year-Old Scientific Screwup That Helped Covid Kill"


Spoiler!
I find the state of discussion about "science" these days to be very disheartening. It's become tribal, which is the opposite of the point. I think some people feel like it's their duty to "follow the science" when there really is no such thing, and others feel like they have to push back because "the science" can be wrong.

I think it's helpful to consider that weather forecasts are probably a good example of how science works in regard to really complex systems (like virus spread). Meteorologists are reasonably good at giving us an idea of what we think will happen, but just because a weather forecast says it's likely going to rain doesn't mean that it absolutely will.

If rain is in the forecast, it's probably prudent to take an umbrella, and people who do so are likely going to be better off more often than not. However, it's not completely insane to say you're not going to take an umbrella because you don't trust the forecast or that you will just suffer the consequences.

I've said many times that the downfall of debate in the modern age is the lack of nuance, and this is just another example of it. "Science" is a great tool that can generally point us in the right direction, but it's not infallible. I kind of wish more recommendations had probabilities or confidence levels as caveats, but I'm sure that that would just confuse everyone. C'est la vie.
[Reply]
O.city 09:38 AM 05-18-2021
Originally Posted by DaFace:
I find the state of discussion about "science" these days to be very disheartening. It's become tribal, which is the opposite of the point. I think some people feel like it's their duty to "follow the science" when there really is no such thing, and others feel like they have to push back because "the science" can be wrong.

I think it's helpful to consider that weather forecasts are probably a good example of how science works in regard to really complex systems (like virus spread). Meteorologists are reasonably good at giving us an idea of what we think will happen, but just because a weather forecast says it's likely going to rain doesn't mean that it absolutely will.

If rain is in the forecast, it's probably prudent to take an umbrella, and people who do so are likely going to be better off more often than not. However, it's not completely insane to say you're not going to take an umbrella because you don't trust the forecast or that you will just suffer the consequences.

I've said many times that the downfall of debate in the modern age is the lack of nuance, and this is just another example of it. "Science" is a great tool that can generally point us in the right direction, but it's not infallible. I kind of wish more recommendations had probabilities or confidence levels as caveats, but I'm sure that that would just confuse everyone. C'est la vie.
"Science" is just a cop out.

People will use it to do whatever. Our understanding of things change, that doesn't mean the "science" was wrong.

The problem we're seeing now is that when we find out we were wrong on certain things, no one is willing to say "yeah, we have new info, we were wrong, lets change and move forward".
[Reply]
DaFace 09:45 AM 05-18-2021
Originally Posted by O.city:
"Science" is just a cop out.

People will use it to do whatever. Our understanding of things change, that doesn't mean the "science" was wrong.

The problem we're seeing now is that when we find out we were wrong on certain things, no one is willing to say "yeah, we have new info, we were wrong, lets change and move forward".
These days, admitting you were wrong is seen as a weakness, and doing so will almost certainly be used to generate sound bites that will be used against you. That's a huge problem.
[Reply]
Bearcat 09:46 AM 05-18-2021
Originally Posted by DaFace:
I find the state of discussion about "science" these days to be very disheartening. It's become tribal, which is the opposite of the point. I think some people feel like it's their duty to "follow the science" when there really is no such thing, and others feel like they have to push back because "the science" can be wrong.

I think it's helpful to consider that weather forecasts are probably a good example of how science works in regard to really complex systems (like virus spread). Meteorologists are reasonably good at giving us an idea of what we think will happen, but just because a weather forecast says it's likely going to rain doesn't mean that it absolutely will.

If rain is in the forecast, it's probably prudent to take an umbrella, and people who do so are likely going to be better off more often than not. However, it's not completely insane to say you're not going to take an umbrella because you don't trust the forecast or that you will just suffer the consequences.

I've said many times that the downfall of debate in the modern age is the lack of nuance, and this is just another example of it. "Science" is a great tool that can generally point us in the right direction, but it's not infallible. I kind of wish more recommendations had probabilities or confidence levels as caveats, but I'm sure that that would just confuse everyone. C'est la vie.
Exactly, and good analogy. It far too often turns into black and white arguments about who's right and wrong, yet none of that has anything to do with science.

And, I mean... Wired. :-)
[Reply]
Fish 10:25 AM 05-18-2021
Originally Posted by DaFace:
I find the state of discussion about "science" these days to be very disheartening. It's become tribal, which is the opposite of the point. I think some people feel like it's their duty to "follow the science" when there really is no such thing, and others feel like they have to push back because "the science" can be wrong.

I think it's helpful to consider that weather forecasts are probably a good example of how science works in regard to really complex systems (like virus spread). Meteorologists are reasonably good at giving us an idea of what we think will happen, but just because a weather forecast says it's likely going to rain doesn't mean that it absolutely will.

If rain is in the forecast, it's probably prudent to take an umbrella, and people who do so are likely going to be better off more often than not. However, it's not completely insane to say you're not going to take an umbrella because you don't trust the forecast or that you will just suffer the consequences.

I've said many times that the downfall of debate in the modern age is the lack of nuance, and this is just another example of it. "Science" is a great tool that can generally point us in the right direction, but it's not infallible. I kind of wish more recommendations had probabilities or confidence levels as caveats, but I'm sure that that would just confuse everyone. C'est la vie.
Fake news. Them damn weather scientists are just telling you to bring an umbrella so they can get more money making weather forecasts. You're a sheep if you take an umbrella. That's what's wrong with this country. Too many people scared and clutching their umbrellas because "Science" told them too. I happen to know several scientists who work for Big Umbrella. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Here's a Youtube video of someone proving that umbrellas actually cause cancer, and it has 1 million likes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

Debunked!
[Reply]
Monticore 10:30 AM 05-18-2021
Originally Posted by DaFace:
These days, admitting you were wrong is seen as a weakness, and doing so will almost certainly be used to generate sound bites that will be used against you. That's a huge problem.
I always viewed that as a sign of intelligence ,jus like being able to say " I don't know".

A lot of people consider a misdiagnosis in medicine as incompetence , it could be but more often than not is much more complicated and just not a black or white answer.

"it's complicated" is never good enough of an answer, but trying to explain it becomes too complicated for people to comprehend also.
[Reply]
Bearcat 10:56 AM 05-18-2021
Originally Posted by Monticore:
I always viewed that as a sign of intelligence ,jus like being able to say " I don't know".

A lot of people consider a misdiagnosis in medicine as incompetence , it could be but more often than not is much more complicated and just not a black or white answer.

"it's complicated" is never good enough of an answer, but trying to explain it becomes too complicated for people to comprehend also.
Yeah, and if you spend too much time explaining there are a lot of unknowns, studies take time, it's not black and white, information and recommendations can change base on learning more..... people will just say you're clueless and have no idea.

So, you're basically left with the idea that most people will do whatever the hell they want no matter what you say or how well you explain it, because Dunning Kruger and social media diagrams.
[Reply]
TLO 11:00 AM 05-18-2021
Originally Posted by Fish:
Fake news. Them damn weather scientists are just telling you to bring an umbrella so they can get more money making weather forecasts. You're a sheep if you take an umbrella. That's what's wrong with this country. Too many people scared and clutching their umbrellas because "Science" told them too. I happen to know several scientists who work for Big Umbrella. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Here's a Youtube video of someone proving that umbrellas actually cause cancer, and it has 1 million likes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

Debunked!
XcQ... Not fooling me you son of bitch.
[Reply]
Monticore 11:25 AM 05-18-2021
Originally Posted by Bearcat:
Yeah, and if you spend too much time explaining there are a lot of unknowns, studies take time, it's not black and white, information and recommendations can change base on learning more..... people will just say you're clueless and have no idea.

So, you're basically left with the idea that most people will do whatever the hell they want no matter what you say or how well you explain it, because Dunning Kruger and social media diagrams.
If you do manage to get past the comprehension aspect you then have to punch through the stubbornness part , stupid/stubborn is an impossible combo, people would rather be wrong than admit they are wrong.
[Reply]
phisherman 01:14 PM 05-18-2021
Originally Posted by DaFace:
I've said many times that the downfall of debate in the modern age is the lack of nuance, and this is just another example of it. "Science" is a great tool that can generally point us in the right direction, but it's not infallible. I kind of wish more recommendations had probabilities or confidence levels as caveats, but I'm sure that that would just confuse everyone. C'est la vie.
"Tyranny is the deliberate removal of nuance." - Albert Maysles
[Reply]
loochy 02:04 PM 05-18-2021
Originally Posted by Fish:
Fake news. Them damn weather scientists are just telling you to bring an umbrella so they can get more money making weather forecasts. You're a sheep if you take an umbrella. That's what's wrong with this country. Too many people scared and clutching their umbrellas because "Science" told them too. I happen to know several scientists who work for Big Umbrella. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Here's a Youtube video of someone proving that umbrellas actually cause cancer, and it has 1 million likes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

Debunked!

And, well, if you decide to not take an umbrella then you cause everyone else to get rained on and I shall strictly enforce a rule that never again allows you to leave your house without an umbrella.
[Reply]
DaFace 02:05 PM 05-18-2021
Originally Posted by Fish:
Fake news. Them damn weather scientists are just telling you to bring an umbrella so they can get more money making weather forecasts. You're a sheep if you take an umbrella. That's what's wrong with this country. Too many people scared and clutching their umbrellas because "Science" told them too. I happen to know several scientists who work for Big Umbrella. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Here's a Youtube video of someone proving that umbrellas actually cause cancer, and it has 1 million likes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

Debunked!
Damn. It's been a while. :-)
[Reply]
TLO 09:33 PM 05-18-2021
I find it slightly hilarious that Donger and Pete have been banned from this thread for months and they still have far and away the most posts in here. :-)
[Reply]
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