Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
The alternative would probably be people still talking about the Astros cheating to win the 2017 WS (which apparently was being talked about a day ago by the looks of this thread). Not sure if that’s preferable.
Well, I can understand the Astros chatter because they're back in the WS... It doesn't matter. I was just curious. Thought I might be missing something about past playoff teams from prior seasons that might have something to do with this years playoffs teams. NBD.
Anyway, I hope the Dodgers make it back to the WS this season to face the Stros again for obvious reasons. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Bearcat:
I wouldn't destroy a trash can over it.
I mean, if I was Revere, I probably would have done a bit more than that. That was the biggest AB of his life and it effectively got taken away from him by an umpire. Read a story a year ago or so where he said the call still haunts him. [Reply]
Originally Posted by :
Ben Revere still thinks about his final at-bat in a Toronto Blue Jays uniform.
It was Game 6 of the 2015 American League Championship Series, one out in the top of the ninth inning, runners on second and third. Toronto was trailing the host Kansas City Royals by a run and facing elimination.
He still thinks about the pitch from closer Wade Davis, high and outside, the one called “strike two” by home-plate umpire Jeff Nelson, which gave Revere a 2-2 count instead of a hitter-friendly 3-1, wherein a simple fly ball would have tied to game. He remembers striking out swinging on the next pitch, leaving the tying run on third and the go-ahead run on second. He remembers the beating he laid in frustration on a trash can in the dugout. He remembers Josh Donaldson grounding out to third to end the game, the Royals celebrating a 4-3 victory and trip to the World Series.
“I still have it in my head to this day, but I’ve got to tell myself to turn the page. It’s behind you,” Revere said Tuesday before his first home game with the Triple-A Buffalo Bisons. But it’s difficult.
Revere’s ALCS memories didn’t come flooding back when the outfielder signed a minor league contract to rejoin the Blue Jays’ organization on April 27, because they never left.
Revere, the National League hits leader with the Philadelphia Phillies in 2014, batted .319 in 56 games with Toronto after being traded to the Blue Jays midway through the 2015 season. He was dealt to the Washington Nationals the following offseason, still raw from the loss in the ALCS and that controversial strike two.
“I was [upset]. I couldn’t sleep,” Revere said. “It was a cool thing, [former major leaguer turned sports analyst] Harold Reynolds called me and he said, ‘Ben, that wasn’t a strike. That put you in a bad situation. Don’t think for a second that you failed that at-bat. You had a beautiful at-bat, just the umpire [messed] you over.’ But there’s nothing I can do more about it. I wish I could. I’ve just got to move forward.”
Originally Posted by TEX:
Well, I can understand the Astros chatter because they're back in the WS... It doesn't matter. I was just curious. Thought I might be missing something about past playoff teams from prior seasons that might have something to do with this years playoffs teams. NBD.
Anyway, I hope the Dodgers make it back to the WS this season to face the Stros again for obvious reasons.
With the overrated Red Sox thankfully out, I don’t really care who wins or loses at this point. Would probably like to see Astros-Dodgers for the narrative though. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
I mean, if I was Revere, I probably would have done a bit more than that. That was the biggest AB of his life and it effectively got taken away from him by an umpire. Read a story a year ago or so where he said the call still haunts him.
That last sentence was just snark, as there is 100% a massive difference between fans' perspective and fans dwelling on a ball or strike, a single call.... and a players' perspective.
I totally agree with what Reynolds said, no matter how hard it would be for a player in Revere's situation to take solace in it. The vast majority of players may only get that chance once in their lifetime and he feels like it was yanked away from him.
Hell, just as a fan on the couch, I felt that way when Tom Brady was getting DPI calls after throwing balls 10 yards in front of receivers or into the stands. As a fan, I've unfortunately adjusted my expectations of the NFL, knowing no team is immune to the bullshit that's completely out of anyone's control.
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
I mean, if I was Revere, I probably would have done a bit more than that. That was the biggest AB of his life and it effectively got taken away from him by an umpire. Read a story a year ago or so where he said the call still haunts him.
No doubt that haunts him.
The spectacular catch and throw (which if Collabello wasn't such a dummy and just looked the ball into his glove would have been a DP), the huge AB that he was dominated on really turned out bad for him. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Bearcat:
JFC, some people really put a lot of effort in absolving their own team and placing blame on umps/refs... the home run was clearly a home run. Balls/strikes that are called one way or another are more common than any other missed call in sports..... might as well complain about a holding call that cost a team a Super Bowl.
Ask Red Sox fans how they feel about being a strike that wasn't a strike away from being out of an inning tied, yet the Astros tacked on another 7 runs (or whatever).
In the grand scheme of bad calls, a strike that wasn't a strike, which didn't end an at bat or an inning or a series all by itself is relatively minor and could have happened in the 2nd or 5th or 7th inning.
I wouldn't destroy a trash can over it.
It's similar to the BFIB complaining to this day that Don Denkinger cost them a WS title in 85.
They went on and bungled that inning (lol) so fucking bad. Clark dropping a pop up, Porter giving up a passed ball.
Those folks will never remember that in the 4th inning, Frank White was called out stealing 2nd, was clearly safe and the Pat Sheridan followed with what would have been a run scoring single.
So, it should have been 1-1 in the 9th. And they had an entire game left to play the next day.
And don't get me started on the 9th inning in game 5 of the 76 ALCS vs the Yankees. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
Yeah, here it is:
I'm all aboard the robo-umps train. If Umps want to read out the robo calls and still do their ring em' up poses and their unions negotiate that they get paid the same to do so, then more power to them.
But until then, making a game plan that incorporates an umps tendencies will always be a part of a competent team's game plan. Indeed, before the Game 6 game, Toronto fans were stoked because David Price was undefeated in his last six starts with Jeff Nelson and had a reputation for using his cutter to manipulate the edges of Nelson's strikezone.
Misc: Jeff Nelson has worked home plate for 7 David Price games, David Price has won his last 6 starts with Nelson behind home plate.
Nelson's standard strike zone was notable enough to be mentioned in multiple articles, one by a Jays fan site. Apologies in advance for using baseball savant, Brooks Baseball was down.
Originally Posted by BlueBirdBanter:
Jeff Nelson is the man calling the balls and strikes for Game 6 and he happened to be featured in an InstaGraphs article just a few weeks ago. [...] Takeaways from this? The Royals are stacked with left-handed hitters who will be facing a larger than average zone against David Price tonight.
By the third inning, Nelson and Price were already on the same wavelength. He got Eric Hosmer on the larger than average zone and Price started going back to it all night. Grabbing two inside strikes against Hos when he found himself in the third inning.
Price also used the outside part of the zone against righties to get calls out of the zone.
Price even was the first who started getting those outside the plate calls against lefties. Getting Moose on an outside call in the 4th.
Herrera also ended up getting a same call on the outside part of the plate against Goins later in the game (another lefty) and after that, Sal started calling for pitches in the exact same spot for lefties against Davis, and it paid off.
I'll never argue these weren't bad calls, but Nelson's strike zone issues were well known before the game, and Price used it to his advantage to find himself after a shaky start -- and the Royals used it to help seal the 2015 ALCS.
Three years later, Price would be 8-2 with Nelson after his decisive Game 2 outing with Nelson behind the plate in the 2018 World Series.
Originally Posted by WilliamTheIrish:
No doubt that haunts him.
The spectacular catch and throw (which if Collabello wasn't such a dummy and just looked the ball into his glove would have been a DP), the huge AB that he was dominated on really turned out bad for him.
Revere played his ass off that game. That catch was unbelievable -- but Collabello failing to turn two was pivotal as playoff Rios (!) came up with a huge two out RBI to drive Moose in that inning. Revere even started the game off with a smoked leadoff double. Unfortunately for him, the Jays would go 0-3 with him in scoring position in the 1st inning, beginning their 0-12 run with runners in scoring position that game. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chiefspants:
Revere played his ass off that game. That catch was unbelievable -- but Collabello failing to turn two was pivotal as playoff Rios (!) came up with a huge two out RBI to drive Moose in that inning. Revere even started the game off with a smoked leadoff double. Unfortunately for him, the Jays would go 0-3 with him in scoring position in the 1st inning, beginning their 0-12 run with runners in scoring position that game.
I've seen a LOT of great outfield plays in that stadium through the years. AO, WW, AC....AG and Bo.
Given the situation, that was the best play I've ever witnessed live. Sal thought it was gone. I thought it was gone. [Reply]
