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Nzoner's Game Room>***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***
JakeF 10:28 PM 02-26-2020
A couple of reminders...

Originally Posted by Bwana:
Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.
Originally Posted by Dartgod:
People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

[Reply]
eDave 10:04 PM 03-21-2020
Originally Posted by oaklandhater:
Camelback. It was packed. All the mountains around town were.
[Reply]
Fish 10:05 PM 03-21-2020
Originally Posted by AustinChief:
I had an in depth conversation about this 3 days ago. I come from a family of pharmacists/medical professionals in case you are wondering, I didn't just call up some random person.
Just pointing out that your claim of "Ask any competent pharmacist" claim was pretty easily refuted since you were directly interacting with one. There's already known issues with it. It's currently classified as having no safe dosage. That doesn't mean it can't be useful. But we currently don't know for sure how its use for this specific virus will do in the long term in the slightest. It shows potential. That's a good thing. But we can't just go and base national recovery measures on the what-ifs of this. Let's try it, sure.
[Reply]
AustinChief 10:11 PM 03-21-2020
Originally Posted by Fish:
It shows potential. That's a good thing. But we can't just go and base national recovery measures on the what-ifs of this. Let's try it, sure.
That is all I was saying. That is why I put forth a scenario then asked a question. I am not really interested in defending the scenario itself, even though I have just now.

I am interested in the answer IF it played out as I put forth.

I will ask again...

What if the following scenario played out...

On Monday a significant number of doctors nationwide start prescribing HCQ+azithromycin to patients in hospital who have tested positive for Covid-19 (those who are severe/critical).

Our supplies of both hold up (this is actually likely given how readily available both are) The US also ramps up production (and taps into strategic stockpiles and military supplies) to meet any upcoming need.

After 6 days, 80%+ of all treated people are virus free.


At what point would you support lifting all the mandated restrictions and just issuing advisories and continuing Federal support for testing and recovery (both economic and medical)?

If this plays out, I can not see ANY excuse for not lifting restrictions by April 1.
[Reply]
SupDock 10:12 PM 03-21-2020
Originally Posted by AustinChief:
That risk is still ridiculously small.

I sincerely hope you are wrong. For the sake of argument let's say it is limited to inpatient care use only. Now, let's say it has 80% effectiveness in a 6 day span. At that point ,given that supply is not an issue, and it should not be at that point in time or slightly beyond, would you be ok with business as usual (with certain conditions that I pointed out) starting April 1st?

If not why not?
I'm not sure how to answer that.

The research study was simply analyzing viral load on nasal swabs after treatment. It didnt look at outcomes in treatment for sick patients.

Also, CCUs across the world are using those meds, and people are still dying.

I don't see any way we are at business as usual April 1.
[Reply]
Discuss Thrower 10:12 PM 03-21-2020
Originally Posted by AustinChief:
That is all I was saying. That is why I put forth a scenario then asked a question. I am not really interested in defending the scenario itself, even though I have just now.

I am interested in the answer IF it played out as I put forth.

I will ask again...

What if the following scenario played out...

On Monday a significant number of doctors nationwide start prescribing HCQ+azithromycin to patients in hospital who have tested positive for Covid-19 (those who are severe/critical).

Our supplies of both hold up (this is actually likely given how readily available both are) The US also ramps up production (and taps into strategic stockpiles and military supplies) to meet any upcoming need.

After 6 days, 80%+ of all treated people are virus free.


At what point would you support lifting all the mandated restrictions and just issuing advisories and continuing Federal support for testing and recovery (both economic and medical)?

If this plays out, I can not see ANY excuse for not lifting restrictions by April 1.
There's probably a marginal decrease in critical cases but not enough to keep hospitals from being buttfucked.
[Reply]
AustinChief 10:16 PM 03-21-2020
Originally Posted by SupDock:
I'm not sure how to answer that.

The research study was simply analyzing viral load on nasal swabs after treatment. It didnt look at outcomes in treatment for sick patients.

Also, CCUs across the world are using those meds, and people are still dying.

I don't see any way we are at business as usual April 1.
Treatment with that exact combination and specific dosage(standard z-pak and 200mg tid is actually a recent development. I can't imagine there has been a significant number of doctors using it for the minimum of 5 days that are required to see results.
[Reply]
Discuss Thrower 10:17 PM 03-21-2020
Originally Posted by :
Goldman Sachs Group Inc. pumped more than $1 billion into two of its prime money-market portfolios as investors pulled funds during one of Wall Street’s most volatile weeks.

The bank bought $722.4 million in assets from its Goldman Sachs Financial Square Money Market Fund last week and another $301.2 million from its Goldman Sachs Financial Square Prime Obligations Fund, according to two filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission late Friday. Combined net withdrawals exceeded $8 billion.

The purchases increased the funds’ weekly liquid assets to 42% from 34% for the first product, and to 49% from 44% for the latter. As of the market close Friday, the WLA levels were 46% and 50%, respectively.
Tick. Tock. Tick. Tock.
[Reply]
RINGLEADER 10:18 PM 03-21-2020
Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy:
A New York surgeon has already said that hospitals will be overwhelmed soon and that healthcare workers are at serious risk. Could you imagine what it would be like if everyone was out there working and partying right now?

I think your notion that it is not a foregone conclusion that hospitals wouldnt be overrun if the at risk were self quarantined and everyone went about their business like this virus isnt extremely contagious is a little too optimistic for my taste.

Here's a link to the article with the surgeon warning about the risks of hospital problems.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...ys/ar-BB11wbhk
Been beating the drum — if they can lock down and prevent the spread to date combined with the idea of using one ventilator to sustain two patients then they may be able to avoid the worst-case. But all these cities have to get people locked down.
[Reply]
AustinChief 10:18 PM 03-21-2020
Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower:
There's probably a marginal decrease in critical cases but not enough to keep hospitals from being buttfucked.
Um, the scenario specifically states that 80% of those treated would be virus free (for testing purposes) after 6 days. Suspend disbelief and say that the scenario plays out exactly like that. So, you decrease severe/critical cases by 80% and have a proven treatment... when do you release govt restrictions?
[Reply]
Fish 10:18 PM 03-21-2020
Originally Posted by AustinChief:
That is all I was saying. That is why I put forth a scenario then asked a question. I am not really interested in defending the scenario itself, even though I have just now.

I am interested in the answer IF it played out as I put forth.

I will ask again...

What if the following scenario played out...

On Monday a significant number of doctors nationwide start prescribing HCQ+azithromycin to patients in hospital who have tested positive for Covid-19 (those who are severe/critical).

Our supplies of both hold up (this is actually likely given how readily available both are) The US also ramps up production (and taps into strategic stockpiles and military supplies) to meet any upcoming need.

After 6 days, 80%+ of all treated people are virus free.


At what point would you support lifting all the mandated restrictions and just issuing advisories and continuing Federal support for testing and recovery (both economic and medical)?

If this plays out, I can not see ANY excuse for not lifting restrictions by April 1.
If your hypothetical scenario happened just like that, then sure lifting restrictions at that time doesn't seem unreasonable at all. But personally, I see zero chance of the scenario happening. I don't think supplies would hold up. I don't think production could be met. I don't think we should assume any percentage of what the results would be. That's ignoring the known negative effects and what that means for recommended treatment.
[Reply]
Bearcat 10:19 PM 03-21-2020
Originally Posted by 007:
So how do you all feel about KC going shelter in place on Tuesday. I'm shocked that they are going to enforce it as a misdemeanor, fine, and jail time.
The ordinance itself is kind of ridiculously stated.... seems like they've set themselves up for a shit storm if they're actually going to enforce it beyond the non-essential business part or large gatherings in public spaces.

https://www.kcmo.gov/home/showdocument?id=4065

https://library.municode.com/mo/kans...PREMPOMAUNPREM
[Reply]
AustinChief 10:21 PM 03-21-2020
Originally Posted by Fish:
If your hypothetical scenario happened just like that, then sure lifting restrictions at that time doesn't seem unreasonable at all. But personally, I see zero chance of the scenario happening. I don't think supplies would hold up. I don't think production could be met. I don't think we should assume any percentage of what the results would be. That's ignoring the known negative effects and what that means for recommended treatment.
Ok, this is the response I am looking for. This is a game of "what if"... it doesn't really matter if you think the scenario is complete bullshit.
[Reply]
ThaVirus 10:23 PM 03-21-2020
Originally Posted by BossChief:
From 11:30pm on the 12th.
Are you ever not sucking your own dick?
[Reply]
SupDock 10:23 PM 03-21-2020
Originally Posted by AustinChief:
Um, the scenario specifically states that 80% of those treated would be virus free (for testing purposes) after 6 days. Suspend disbelief and say that the scenario plays out exactly like that. So, you decrease severe/critical cases by 80% and have a proven treatment... when do you release govt restrictions?
They did the research studies because they noticed improved outcomes with the medications in China. If it cured (whatever that means) 80 percent of people, we would know about it.

I'm not trying to be a negative Nancy, the medication certainly has potential, but I don't think we see the effects you are taking about.
[Reply]
007 10:26 PM 03-21-2020
Originally Posted by Bearcat:
The ordinance itself is kind of ridiculously stated.... seems like they've set themselves up for a shit storm if they're actually going to enforce it beyond the non-essential business part or large gatherings in public spaces.



https://www.kcmo.gov/home/showdocument?id=4065



https://library.municode.com/mo/kans...PREMPOMAUNPREM
Everyone will just say they are on the way to a grocery store
[Reply]
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