Originally Posted by Amnorix:
I'm pointing out that dynastic teams dominate their division for very long periods of time. Showing that the Patriots have dominated the AFC East doesn't prove that the AFC East (outside of the Patriots) have sucked for the last 20 years.
Yes, the Patriots have dominated the AFCE. They've also dominated just about every other division in football during that same timeframe.
The AFC East does have the best overall record, however they are also propped up significantly by the Patriots. The other 3 teams in the division rank 19th, 22nd, and 26th in overall record. For reference, the divisions in 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 7th place each have 3 teams with a better overall record than the AFC East's second best team, the NY Jets [Reply]
Originally Posted by Lprechaun:
The AFC East does have the best overall record, however they are also propped up significantly by the Patriots. The other 3 teams in the division rank 19th, 22nd, and 26th in overall record. For reference, the divisions in 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 7th place each have 3 teams with a better overall record than the AFC East's second best team, the NY Jets
Not sure what you're looking at, but -- if you're including the losses to the Patriots, you're punishing the other three teams for being in the same division as the Patriots and having to play them twice. Essentially giving those three teams a combined 5-6 losses PER YEAR for all of the years covered.
So this stat is weird, but useful. It's the record of each division since 2000 against ALL OTHER divisions, but EXCLUDING whatever team won the division that year (so, exclude the Patriots themselves most years, as well as whichever team won the various other divisions in any given year).
But again, this isn't fair to the AFC East. What happens when we remove every season's division winners from each division?
Division W - L - T Win Percentage
AFC East 395 - 469 - 0 .457
NFC East 390 - 472 - 2 .451
NFC South 394 - 501 - 2 .439
AFC North 368 - 493 - 4 .425
AFC South 365 - 499 - 0 .422
AFC West 363 - 501 - 0 .420
NFC North 361 - 502 - 2 .417
NFC West 347 - 515 - 4 .401
It looks like -- between the Patriots EQUAL domination inside and outside the AFCE, and the AFCE's (other than Pats) not-bad showing against other divisions (outside of their division's champ that year), that the AFC East doesn't suck as horrifically as Patriots haters suggest. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Amnorix:
Not sure what you're looking at, but -- if you're including the losses to the Patriots, you're punishing the other three teams for being in the same division as the Patriots and having to play them twice. Essentially giving those three teams a combined 5-6 losses PER YEAR for all of the years covered.
So this stat is weird, but useful. It's the record of each division since 2000 against ALL OTHER divisions, but EXCLUDING whatever team won the division that year (so, exclude the Patriots themselves most years, as well as whichever team won the various other divisions in any given year).
But again, this isn't fair to the AFC East. What happens when we remove every season's division winners from each division?
Division W - L - T Win Percentage
AFC East 395 - 469 - 0 .457
NFC East 390 - 472 - 2 .451
NFC South 394 - 501 - 2 .439
AFC North 368 - 493 - 4 .425
AFC South 365 - 499 - 0 .422
AFC West 363 - 501 - 0 .420
NFC North 361 - 502 - 2 .417
NFC West 347 - 515 - 4 .401
It looks like -- between the Patriots EQUAL domination inside and outside the AFCE, and the AFCE's (other than Pats) not-bad showing against other divisions (outside of their division's champ that year), that the AFC East doesn't suck as horrifically as Patriots haters suggest.
Is this guy for real? He talks about how the divisions matter then when you show him he decides to take out the winners? That was the freaking point. :-):-):-) [Reply]
Besides -- in what universe has this EVER been used to undermine a team's dominance? Did anyone ever say "wow, the NFC West was WEAK outside of the Niners. NO WONDER they dominated all those years..." Not that i can recall.
I’m pretty sure my 49ers coworkers got sick of me talking about what an advantage SF had that they played in a weak ass division that let them not only coast to home field advantage but they could also rest their starters in the fourth quarter. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Lprechaun:
Is this guy for real? He talks about how the divisions matter then when you show him he decides to take out the winners? That was the freaking point. :-):-):-)
You don't seem to understand what I'm posting at all.
How would YOU compare the non-Patriot AFC East's strength over the last 20 years? You can't just compare how the divisions in total have done against each other -- the AFC East looks GREAT, but it's skewed by teh Patriots themselves winning at such a high percentage.
So you can look at how the AFC East has done (excluding Pats) against the other divisions, but that isn't really fair either. You're top-weighting the other division by including their champ team.
If you're trying to determine how difficult the Patriots road to the division crown was, compared to the road other division winners had, doesn't it make sense to look at how the non-division winners have done against teams OUTSIDE their own division? [Reply]
Originally Posted by Amnorix:
You don't seem to understand what I'm posting at all.
How would YOU compare the non-Patriot AFC East's strength over the last 20 years? You can't just compare how the divisions in total have done against each other -- the AFC East looks GREAT, but it's skewed by teh Patriots themselves winning at such a high percentage.
So you can look at how the AFC East has done (excluding Pats) against the other divisions, but that isn't really fair either. You're top-weighting the other division by including their champ team.
If you're trying to determine how difficult the Patriots road to the division crown was, compared to the road other division winners had, doesn't it make sense to look at how the non-division winners have done against teams OUTSIDE their own division?
You were the one defending your division, not really understanding how bad it is.
THEN you lose that argument and decide to remove division winners altogether and compare the divisions.
We might as well pretend NE is in the AFC W and get rid of the Raiders, you really think you win all those division titles?
Your division is KEY to NE and their success... period, end of discussion.
By your reasoning look at YOUR divisions record against other divisions not the other divisions against eachother. [Reply]
I cant imagine rooting for a team where in the post-season...you never even think of the refs screwing you out of a win. Their worst case scenario is an evenly called contest.
I cant imagine having zero penalties in their biggest game of the regular season...when there is evidence some were committed.
It really never crosses Patriot fans mind...that they could possibly lose because of the officials.
Its the #1 thing I worry about when the Chiefs play in important games...."how bad are they going to get ****ed ...and do they have a big enough lead to beat the calls".
Chiefs could have been to multiple SB if the refs decided to take game winning TDs off the board...or call bogus PI at critical junctures...or rule incomplete passes as legit.
NE is a good team...but their "dynasty" is heavily aided by beneficial calls. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Lprechaun:
You were the one defending your division, not really understanding how bad it is. THEN you lose that argument and decide to remove division winners altogether and compare the divisions.
WTF are you talking about?
Originally Posted by :
We might as well pretend NE is in the AFC W and get rid of the Raiders, you really think you win all those division titles?
In other words, if you turn the AFC West into the by-far best division in the NFL by adding to the Patriots to it, do the Pats win all those division championships? No. Do they win most of them? Yes. Will they lose some of the bye years? Yes.
But it's a ridiculous hypothetical. If we put the Niners into the NFC East years ago and removed the weakest link -- the Eagles -- does that affect anything? Well, duh, yes.
A more realistic change is to swap the Pats (AFCE) and Colts (AFCS). Does much change? Nope.
Pats for Pack (NFCN). Much change? Nope.
YOUR argument is that the AFC East has offered no competition for the Patriots. Putting the Patriots into a division that had NO very weak teams doesn't make much sense. No team in the NFL has had to deal with that.
Originally Posted by :
Your division is KEY to NE and their success... period, end of discussion. By your reasoning look at YOUR divisions record against other divisions not the other divisions against eachother.
Does that final sentence say what you want it to? I did look at the AFC East against other divisions. That's what I posted. [Reply]
Amnorix...give one example of the Patriots/Brady losing on bogus officiating...just one besides the 2015 Doink game...where it was Manning's retirement season.
You cant...and you know it. Definitely never in the post-season.
I can list 5 in that past 2 years for the Chiefs...including 3 play-off loses...one of which forced the official to retire. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BlackOp:
...It really never crosses Patriot fans mind...that they could possibly lose because of the officials...
Ironically, the last time they lost on a late penalty was during the referee strike and a Brady TD pass was overturned by offensive PI...I think it was on Gronk. Those referees had no agenda or allegiance to NE or the NFL. I loved every minute of the replacement referees.
KC came back from a 3 score deficit to win a game that required 3 calls to be reviewed and overturned against NO...I dont think that's ever happened before or since the regular refs have been in place.
I'm hoping KC starts getting a few calls and I'll have the sack to acknowledge it and agree unlike patriot fans. [Reply]
Its like talking to a brick wall.
My good friend as a NE fan is the same way....
but when I asked him how much a fan he was before Kraft bought them he said he wasnt really in to football.
Let em have their rings, once the "dynasty" is over they will scatter like cockroaches and we wont see their fans visiting other teams forums.
Northeast mentality [Reply]
