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Nzoner's Game Room>Whoo Hoo, electric cars?
HemiEd 07:00 AM 11-24-2021
Originally Posted by tyreekthefreak:
Good luck with an electric tractor! Do you own any of the battery powered lawn tools on the market today? They are all a step down from gas operated tools, in both speed and torque! Come back after you've lived in your green home for 10 years and tell us all about it. It's not nearly as rosy as you make it sound! The automobile improved our lives 10 fold. Electric/solar will not improve anything! All it will do is appease the lunatics who think global warming is a man made calamity.
Yeah, history is repeating itself. There are a lot of articles available on the subject that make for some interesting reading.

The power grid issue is real.

We have a hybrid as one of our vehicles and it is nice to get 52 mpg but at the sacrifice of power and comfort.
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RedRaider56 07:31 AM 11-24-2021
Originally Posted by HemiEd:
Yeah, history is repeating itself. There are a lot of articles available on the subject that make for some interesting reading.

The power grid issue is real.

We have a hybrid as one of our vehicles and it is nice to get 52 mpg but at the sacrifice of power and comfort.
While the original post is difficult to read, at best, it does have some salient points in it. I Think owning an EV would be nice, but they aren't a viable option for me just yet. The Rivian and the new Ford 150 are making me take a closer look at EVs as an alternative

States are looking at implementing a use tax on EVs/Hybrids based upon miles driven or increasing registration fees, since gasoline tax dollars are not being received from EV drivers.

EVs just aren't ready for the long drives many folks want to take for vacations. Adding 30 - 40 minutes of charging times to my trip, every 250 miles or so, just don't make EVs an attractive alternative for me. There's a reason Tesla put many of its fast charging stations next to coffee shops and bakeries.

Lithium battery disposal - Batteries have a typical life of about 150,000 miles and then have to be replaced. The batteries have to go somewhere. I don't believe they can be recycled and the contents are caustic to the environment.

While EV's tout being zero emission, charging them is not zero emission as most electric grids are powered by coal, natural gas etc.
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ChiefGator 07:12 AM 11-24-2021
Originally Posted by tyreekthefreak:
Good luck with an electric tractor! Do you own any of the battery powered lawn tools on the market today? They are all a step down from gas operated tools, in both speed and torque!
Actually, torque is exactly what they can easily get from large motors. An electric tractor is perfect to utilize what motors naturally provide.

I have electric tools too.. love my DeWalt chainsaw, but still have to fire up my Stihls for larger tasks. Part of that is really that the DeWalts are made for home and spot work. And they have to keep the motor and battery light to be a light handheld device. I read reviews of electric mowers and they now appear to challenge gas-powered push motors in power.


Originally Posted by tyreekthefreak:
Come back after you've lived in your green home for 10 years and tell us all about it. It's not nearly as rosy as you make it sound!
Hmm.. in ten years... I will be done paying for the solar system, which will still have 10 more years of life on it. I may have to replace the batteries in it, but I am doing as small a battery pack as required to run off the grid when we lose power. I won't have any water bill or electric bill. Since my house is made of SIPs and I am doing ground-heated water, there will be very little electric usage anyway, so I may get paid by the utility company, since I am adding power to their grid. While I will mostly use my conventional wells, the wind-powered well always provides me water, without any electric requirement at all. I will be energy and water independent.

Only negative is that I will still be making house payments, since the SIP construction is a bit more expensive. A ton more structural though, so it can survive through tornadoes and hurricanes pretty easily where conventionally built houses are ripped apart.

And that I will have to futz with my own personal power grid a bit to keep it running, but it will make me use my electrical engineering degree I suppose.
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RedRaider56 06:45 AM 11-24-2021
Originally Posted by ChiefGator:



What is a power wall? I guess I haven't heard of that before.
The powerwall is basically a big ol' battery to store power from your solar panels. If for some reason the solar panels quit charging, or the electric grid goes down, the powerwall kicks in and powers your appliances for a period of time.
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ChiefGator 07:13 AM 11-24-2021
Originally Posted by RedRaider56:
The powerwall is basically a big ol' battery to store power from your solar panels. If for some reason the solar panels quit charging, or the electric grid goes down, the powerwall kicks in and powers your appliances for a period of time.
Ah.. thanks! I'm mostly using the grid as my battery for the solar, but I do need a small bank of batteries to get me through a day or so just for convenience and because you have to have batteries to be able to run your solar system when electricity goes out, per utility companies. Probably need the batteries to disconnect your system from the grid at a minimum in those cases, so you aren't pumping electricity in as a poor tech is trying to work on a downed wire.
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RedRaider56 07:16 AM 11-24-2021
Originally Posted by ChiefGator:
Ah.. thanks! I'm mostly using the grid as my battery for the solar, but I do need a small bank of batteries to get me through a day or so just for convenience and because you have to have batteries to be able to run your solar system when electricity goes out, per utility companies. Probably need the batteries to disconnect your system from the grid at a minimum in those cases, so you aren't pumping electricity in as a poor tech is trying to work on a downed wire.
Correct. I believe the Tesla PowerWall switches automatically but not 100% sure on that. I friend of mine signed up to have one installed so I'll have to pick his brain to see how it works.
They aren't cheap. I think his is running about $12K for installation.
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TimBone 10:46 PM 11-23-2021
I'll be the one to get it to DC, I guess. And this is a genuine question, because I admit I have done absolutely zero research.

Can someone explain why Republicans are so opposed to electric cars? I was genuinely surprised to hear it was a political talking point at all.

Is it because big oil money is on the Reoublican side?
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ROYC75 10:56 PM 11-23-2021
Originally Posted by TimBone:
I'll be the one to get it to DC, I guess. And this is a genuine question, because I admit I have done absolutely zero research.

Can someone explain why Republicans are so opposed to electric cars? I was genuinely surprised to hear it was a political talking point at all.

Is it because big oil money is on the Reoublican side?
That's a possibility. TBH, IMHO there are a lot of concerns here to think through. Like 1, not everybody is going to be able to pony up that much money for a new ride.

Heh, wait until the flying car comes out!
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TimBone 11:05 PM 11-23-2021
Originally Posted by ROYC75:
That's a possibility. TBH, IMHO there are a lot of concerns here to think through. Like 1, not everybody is going to be able to pony up that much money for a new ride.



Heh, wait until the flying car comes out!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

I can understand that concern, but I'd think that once they become the normal, there will be available at all sorts of price points. At least, I'd hope.
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eDave 11:25 PM 11-23-2021
Originally Posted by TimBone:
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

I can understand that concern, but I'd think that once they become the normal, there will be available at all sorts of price points. At least, I'd hope.
I mean, people didn't just ditch their horse and buggies and go out and get a model T.
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Rain Man 11:31 PM 11-23-2021
Originally Posted by eDave:
I mean, people didn't just ditch their horse and buggies and go out and get a model T.
I've been interested in learning about that transition. It had to have been a big deal, but I've never read anything substantive about it.

Maybe it was an easy thing to do. I guess the concept is the same. They both use roads and they both park when you're at the store and you keep both of them in a garage/stable at your house. So maybe it wasn't that big a deal.

But did they have stop lights in the horse and buggy days? Speed limits? Were horses and buggies driving on the right side before cars showed up? What changed in the hay industry? I presume that the horse population dropped by about 99 percent over a 20 year period, right?

My house was build in 1906, and it had a stable in the back yard. From what I've read, Denver experienced a major transition from horses to cars in around 1910. So how did the family in my house transition? I'm really curious.

There are a couple of houses in my neighborhood that still have hitching posts on the front median. I think that's awesome. I bet my house had one, and I wish it was still there.
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Rain Man 11:00 PM 11-23-2021
Originally Posted by TimBone:
I'll be the one to get it to DC, I guess. And this is a genuine question, because I admit I have done absolutely zero research.

Can someone explain why Republicans are so opposed to electric cars? I was genuinely surprised to hear it was a political talking point at all.

Is it because big oil money is on the Reoublican side?
Separating it from politics, I'm always curious why some people adamantly oppose attempts to establish new technologies. It's not a bad thing to try something new, and if it doesn't work then you abandon it. Why do some people not even want to try it?

It's not even technology in particular. It might be a different type of zoning to help make housing more affordable, or adding bicycle lanes. Any time changes are attempted, some part of the population acts like it's the apocalypse before it's even attempted. It's not even about the issue, I think, but rather it's just a discomfort with doing anything differently than the past.
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TimBone 11:09 PM 11-23-2021
Originally Posted by Rain Man:
Separating it from politics, I'm always curious why some people adamantly oppose attempts to establish new technologies. It's not a bad thing to try something new, and if it doesn't work then you abandon it. Why do some people not even want to try it?



It's not even technology in particular. It might be a different type of zoning to help make housing more affordable, or adding bicycle lanes. Any time changes are attempted, some part of the population acts like it's the apocalypse before it's even attempted. It's not even about the issue, I think, but rather it's just a discomfort with doing anything differently than the past.
This is an excellent observation. I've sometimes wondered the same thing. I think some of it can be attributed to humans being creatures of habit and routine. Also, a lot of people, in general, tend to dismiss ideas that not familiar with or fully able to comprehend. So, a lot of times, it's easier for people to just shake their fist at things than to give new ideas/technology the proper effort they deserve.
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Rain Man 11:14 PM 11-23-2021
Originally Posted by TimBone:
This is an excellent observation. I've sometimes wondered the same thing. I think some of it can be attributed to humans being creatures of habit and routine. Also, a lot of people, in general, tend to dismiss ideas that not familiar with or fully able to comprehend. So, a lot of times, it's easier for people to just shake their fist at things than to give new ideas/technology the proper effort they deserve.
Yeah, and I'll admit that I'm really trailing edge on adopting new things. However, I don't oppose other people trying them, and if they work then I'll get on board a decade later.

When I got married, I'm pretty sure that my wife thought that I had time-traveled from the 19th century. We were moving in together and we inventoried things to see what was redundant. The checklist went like this:

Microwave - she had it, I didn't.
Nice camera - she had it, I didn't.
Vacuum cleaner - she had it, I didn't.
Toaster - she had it, I didn't.
Blender - she had it, I didn't.
Dinner plates - she had them, I didn't.
Television - she had it, I didn't.

On and on and on. I basically owned a couch and a bed and a couple of pots and pans that looked like they'd been used on a cattle drive.
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eDave 11:43 PM 11-23-2021
Originally Posted by Rain Man:
Separating it from politics, I'm always curious why some people adamantly oppose attempts to establish new technologies. It's not a bad thing to try something new, and if it doesn't work then you abandon it. Why do some people not even want to try it?

It's not even technology in particular. It might be a different type of zoning to help make housing more affordable, or adding bicycle lanes. Any time changes are attempted, some part of the population acts like it's the apocalypse before it's even attempted. It's not even about the issue, I think, but rather it's just a discomfort with doing anything differently than the past.
All those things are considered "progressive". And that's why you can't separate it from politics. People also fear change and things they don't understand.
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