Have been banned from the other thread by an apparently sensitive snowflake (ironically after dozens of pages of political discussion from others) so I'll stick my thoughts on the NBA Playoffs here from now on. We needed a new thread anyway. [Reply]
Originally Posted by sedated:
If you stopped baiting people into LeBron arguments (with posts exactly like this), then people might actually talk about real basketball.
Every page is the same thing over and over, and its completely pointless.
On the contrary, the usual suspects are nowhere to be found exactly because LeBron/the Lakers are winning this series. They are more than happy to make references to his play/comparisons to MJ when he/his team (and usually his team) is struggling.
The truth is this: the only reason you continually push this narrative so hard is because you’re trying so hard to convince everyone else it is the truth.
To be completely honest, I think you’re trying to convince yourself as well.
I don't need to convince myself or others. The statistics do a pretty good job of that for me. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Sorry:
Jordan is the goat, one could easily say if he didn’t retire he’d have at least 2 more rings. It’s not a knock on lebron for being the second goat
If it comes down only to rings, isn't Bill Russell the first GOAT then? [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
On the contrary, the usual suspects are nowhere to be found exactly because LeBron/the Lakers are winning this series. They are more than happy to make references to his play/comparisons to MJ when he/his team (and usually his team) is struggling.
Where they at?
No one wants to talk about MJ vs LeBron except you. The topic has been beaten to death.
Also, no one cares about the Finals either. Everyone knows Lakers will win and it is boring as hell to watch with no fans..
Stop it with the LeBron GOAT talk and just talk basketball. Your obsession with LeBron is annoying. [Reply]
Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy:
No one wants to talk about MJ vs LeBron except you. The topic has been beaten to death.
Also, no one cares about the Finals either. Everyone knows Lakers will win and it is boring as hell to watch with no fans..
Everyone here cared about the Finals a lot more than 4 HOFers were kicking the shit out of LeBron and a bunch of scrubs two years ago, a series that was far more one-sided. I wonder why that could be. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
Everyone here cared about the Finals a lot more than 4 HOFers were kicking the shit out of LeBron and a bunch of scrubs two years ago, a series that was far more one-sided. I wonder why that could be.
I'm not going to get baited into a LeBron GOAT argument with you.
Have a good day. Enjoy the Finals, I'm sure you will since all you care about is LeBron being considered the GOAT. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
Everyone here cared about the Finals a lot more than 4 HOFers were kicking the shit out of LeBron and a bunch of scrubs two years ago, a series that was far more one-sided. I wonder why that could be.
Maybe because basketball at that point hadn’t become a rotating BLM commercial where we have to hear how every millionaire’s life has been so very hard . . . . . :-) [Reply]
Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin:
Maybe because basketball at that point hadn’t become a rotating BLM commercial where we have to hear how every millionaire’s life has been so very hard . . . . . :-)
I can only presume you don't actually watch these games because I don't recall hearing anything about BLM (or even anything even similar) for at least a good month now on these broadcasts from anyone. It's only a thing for anybody choosing to make it a thing. [Reply]
KCC has been obsessed ever since 80% of the league identified MJ as the goat. Maybe more after the Last Dance aired. Thus his "True GOAT" shtick. Not sure if he cried more after the poll came out, The Royals kicked the Jay's ass in the playoffs or when Ador posterized Bautista with a beautiful right hand. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
That’s because many have been conditioned to hate LeBron for the past two decades (I personally hated the hype myself back in 2002-2005 and never bought into it until I could no longer refuse what was so plain and obvious to see) and are now incapable of admitting what this guy developed into. And then of course there are also the MJ fans who need to diminish him to protect that legacy (who conveniently ignore all of MJ’s own playoff failures in the 80s). None of it is based in any semblance of fact.
He’s on the most dominating individual run in the history of basketball and he’s showing no signs of slowing. What a time to be alive.
Yeah....history treats those really weird and I think it's partly a product of Jordan's own need to light a fire under his ass.
Interestingly, I just happened to stumble onto an article from Scott Ostler of the LA Times a few days ago written in '89 - before Jordan had made any post-season noise.
He was building his All-Time NBA starting 5.
Chamberlain -- C
Baylor -- PF
Bird -- SF
Magic -- G
Michael Jordan -- G
"While everyone else was trying to invent the wheel, Jordan showed up with a radial tire..."
This idea that there was a national sentiment that Jordan was an overrated ball-hog is just something that Jordan spent a decade convincing himself of because...that's what Jordan did. When this article was written Michael Jordan was twenty five years old and playing in his 4th full season in the league. He was nothing resembling Michael Jordan and the Bulls dynasty wasn't even an inkling in anyone's minds.
But people absolutely knew what an overwhelming force of nature he was and they knew it immediately.
And yes, Lebrons longevity at 35 is exceptional, but lets not act like Jordan was creaking around in his last Bulls season.
Jordans PER, WAR and VORP respectively in 97-98: 25.2, 15.8, 7.1
Lebron's PER, WAR and VORP respectively in 19-20: 25.5, 9.8, 6.1
Granted, if it's all about resumes then ultimately the fact that James DIDN'T retire and seems likely to continue playing at a high level for a bit longer matters. But if we're talking about who we'd want at his apex leading our basketball team with our freedom on the line?
I know who I'd take.
I'd say Jordan's peak as a pure ballplayer was 86-91 and in that time he averaged a 31.1 PER, put up 97.2 wins and 55.9 VORP.
Lebron's peak was probably 08-13 and he went for a 30.4 PER, 88 wins and a 47.4 VORP.
At their peaks, regardless of team outcomes, Jordan was a better basketball player. Factor in team outcomes and Jordan will almost certainly have a better career there as well.
Longevity is the only real feather in LeBron's cap but when you look at Jordan's durability (only 1 injury in his entire career - his foot injury his second season) and the high level he was playing at in his final season in Chicago, there's little reason to believe he couldn't have continued to be an elite player.
I've loathed Jordan forever. Still can't stand him. But he's the 'true GOAT'. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
Being the GOAT is about having the peak and the longevity. Brees is lacking one of those.
Wait...what?
Please do explain which one of those Brees lacks.
I'm curious to hear how how a 6-year run where he averaged 5k yards passing/season when prior to the start of that run there had been 4 such seasons in NFL history fails to qualify as a 'peak' or how being the all time leader in passing yards and passing touchdowns doesn't reach the 'longevity' mark.
Why do we care so much that LeBron isn't Jordan? Are there people that aren't happy with Mahomes because think peak Montana was better? Are there people that are upset with Mike Trout because they think Willie Mays was better?
Like seriously it's a petty argument, LeBron plays now, he's a top 10 player of all time, enjoy watching him you don't get to see that shit all that often.
Sometimes I think it's this weird nostalgia shit that everything was better when I was a kid. [Reply]
