Sources: The #Seahawks and #Chiefs are deep in talks on a trade to send star Frank Clark to KC. The compensation would include a 1st rounder, a 2020 2nd rounder and a swap of mid-rounders. To complete it, the franchise tagged player and Chiefs must hammer out a deal.
The part about outbidding the Colts and Jets is relevant. It's GOOD to be that team. You don't want to be the fan of a team like the Colts who just sit around holding their dick, hoping to collect the scraps after the big boys have had their prime cut.
Others wanted Mathieu and we got him.
Others wanted Mahomes and *WE* got him, making a huge splash in a move that many idiots questioned.
Swing for the fences or go home. We've been suffering solid doubles for decades. [Reply]
Originally Posted by CupidStunt:
The part about outbidding the Colts and Jets is relevant. It's GOOD to be that team. You don't want to be the fan of a team like the Colts who just sit around holding their dick, hoping to collect the scraps after the big boys have had their prime cut.
I know there's a lot of love for Ballard on this board, but if I were a fan of the Colts, having the run they did last year, going into the offseason at max optimism with unlimited cap dollars, and then missing out on all premier players (ex-Houston), I think I'd be livid.
I was beside myself at the trade deadline last year because I couldn't believe we didn't do anything to better the team and I knew a porous defense would come back to cost us in the playoffs. I had the same sort of fears until we made this move.
Veach gets it. Reid gets it. Even Clark Hunt gets it (Chiefs don't take on this baggage otherwise). This team is damn close. Now let's plug some holes/fill in some depth in the draft and go win a championship. [Reply]
Now, there are worse ways to spend cap space, but this deal didn’t happen in a vacuum. The reason Kansas City was in need of a pass rusher in the first place was its decisions to trade pending free agent Dee Ford to San Francisco for a second-round pick and let the aging-but-still-productive Justin Houston go to Indianapolis for a modest deal. In all, Ford and Houston signed for seven years, $110 million, including $51.8 million in guaranteed money, with their new teams. That’s two ultra-productive players for, essentially, the price of Clark.
Now, you might be thinking that the Chiefs defense was awful last year and the biggest culprit in all of their losses, and you’d be correct. But that had little to do with Houston and Ford, who combined for 125 QB pressures. No other teammates combined for more. Clark managed an impressive 64 on his own, which is 16 more than Houston tallied but 13 fewer than Ford’s total. Pro Football Focus graded Ford as the best pass rusher in 2018. Houston ranked fifth. Clark ranked outside the top-20.
(This is all without taking into account Clark’s troubling history with domestic violence, or the time he tweeted to a female reporter that she wouldn’t last long in the business and would end up cleaning his fish tank.)
So, essentially, Kansas City gave up a first-round pick and about $12 million in guaranteed money for a player who isn’t any better than either of the TWO players he’s being asked to replace on his own. The Chiefs’ pass rush, which was the only above average facet of the defense, is somehow worse off than it was before the offseason began.
Kansas City’s defensive problems stemmed from an ineffective secondary that could not hold in coverage, and it’s going to take more than an effective rush to change that. Advanced stats suggest that in the relationship between pass rush and coverage, the latter plays a bigger role. Via The Ringer:
Another thing PFF has found that relates to the draft is that highly graded coverage players are just as important, and perhaps more so, than highly graded pass rushers. “It’s something that, at first, super offended my sensibilities,” Eager says. “It’s a product of how we watch the game. The broadcast angle doesn’t show the coverage guys. Team success is correlated with how well coverage is. Pass rush and coverage are correlated, but the direction arrow points more towards coverage helping pass rush more than the other way around.” He points out that the smartest team in the league, the New England Patriots, has spent big on two cornerbacks this decade, Stephon Gilmore and Darrelle Revis, and not on pass rushers.
If Kansas City wanted to improve its defense, the front office should have allocated those resources — all that cap space and that first-round pick — on the secondary. That would have been the most effective way to maximize this window while Mahomes is on his rookie deal.
What’s more, Mahomes is already a top-tier quarterback. He’s not in that “Let’s hurry up and build around this rookie while he’s still cheap” class. Kansas City did not need to be in a rush to maximize its Super Bowl window, because Mahomes’ play would have done that on its own.
There are two viable paths to winning in the NFL today: Having an elite-level quarterback or having a solid one making below market money. The Chiefs had both! There was no need to make a win-now move that could possibly limit the front office’s ability to build around Mahomes in the future. It could’ve done so naturally, as Mahomes continued to grow as a quarterback.
Instead, the Chiefs gave up astonishing value and cap space to acquire a player who will only marginally improve the team’s defense. And they gave up the opportunity to add a cheap star on Thursday night for the right to do it. Grades
Chiefs: D-
Kansas City needed pass rush and they got it, which is the only thing keeping this deal from being a total failure. Frank Clark is a young, dominant pass rush who should continue to get better. But with a first-round pick in a draft loaded with pass rushers, the Chiefs could have found a similarly productive player without handing out an eight-figure contract. Or, they could have just re-signed Houston or Ford, saved money and kept their pick. Seahawks: A
It’s going to be tough moving on from a talented player like Clark, but these are the kind of moves smart teams make. As good as Clark is, he’s not worth over $100 million — no pass rusher is. Especially with cheap pass rushers hitting the market every offseason and a draft class full of intriguing edge prospects. Seattle won a Super Bowl with undervalued pass rushers like Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril and Chris Clemons. Pete Carroll knows he can build a dominant defense without breaking the bank for a defensive end. [Reply]
Now, there are worse ways to spend cap space, but this deal didn’t happen in a vacuum. The reason Kansas City was in need of a pass rusher in the first place was its decisions to trade pending free agent Dee Ford to San Francisco for a second-round pick and let the aging-but-still-productive Justin Houston go to Indianapolis for a modest deal. In all, Ford and Houston signed for seven years, $110 million, including $51.8 million in guaranteed money, with their new teams. That’s two ultra-productive players for, essentially, the price of Clark.
Now, you might be thinking that the Chiefs defense was awful last year and the biggest culprit in all of their losses, and you’d be correct. But that had little to do with Houston and Ford, who combined for 125 QB pressures. No other teammates combined for more. Clark managed an impressive 64 on his own, which is 16 more than Houston tallied but 13 fewer than Ford’s total. Pro Football Focus graded Ford as the best pass rusher in 2018. Houston ranked fifth. Clark ranked outside the top-20.
(This is all without taking into account Clark’s troubling history with domestic violence, or the time he tweeted to a female reporter that she wouldn’t last long in the business and would end up cleaning his fish tank.)
So, essentially, Kansas City gave up a first-round pick and about $12 million in guaranteed money for a player who isn’t any better than either of the TWO players he’s being asked to replace on his own. The Chiefs’ pass rush, which was the only above average facet of the defense, is somehow worse off than it was before the offseason began.
That USA Today guy also wrote this about Mahomes before the '17 draft:
Mahomes’ arm will get him drafted in the first two rounds. Some coach will think they can tame him, but this kind of quarterback has never enjoyed long-term success in the NFL. Russell Wilson is top-10 quarterback who can play off-script consistently, but his mechanics are nearly perfect. That will never be the case for Mahomes. [Reply]
Now, there are worse ways to spend cap space, but this deal didn’t happen in a vacuum. The reason Kansas City was in need of a pass rusher in the first place was its decisions to trade pending free agent Dee Ford to San Francisco for a second-round pick and let the aging-but-still-productive Justin Houston go to Indianapolis for a modest deal. In all, Ford and Houston signed for seven years, $110 million, including $51.8 million in guaranteed money, with their new teams. That’s two ultra-productive players for, essentially, the price of Clark.
Now, you might be thinking that the Chiefs defense was awful last year and the biggest culprit in all of their losses, and you’d be correct. But that had little to do with Houston and Ford, who combined for 125 QB pressures. No other teammates combined for more. Clark managed an impressive 64 on his own, which is 16 more than Houston tallied but 13 fewer than Ford’s total. Pro Football Focus graded Ford as the best pass rusher in 2018. Houston ranked fifth. Clark ranked outside the top-20.
(This is all without taking into account Clark’s troubling history with domestic violence, or the time he tweeted to a female reporter that she wouldn’t last long in the business and would end up cleaning his fish tank.)
So, essentially, Kansas City gave up a first-round pick and about $12 million in guaranteed money for a player who isn’t any better than either of the TWO players he’s being asked to replace on his own. The Chiefs’ pass rush, which was the only above average facet of the defense, is somehow worse off than it was before the offseason began.
Kansas City’s defensive problems stemmed from an ineffective secondary that could not hold in coverage, and it’s going to take more than an effective rush to change that. Advanced stats suggest that in the relationship between pass rush and coverage, the latter plays a bigger role. Via The Ringer:
Another thing PFF has found that relates to the draft is that highly graded coverage players are just as important, and perhaps more so, than highly graded pass rushers. “It’s something that, at first, super offended my sensibilities,” Eager says. “It’s a product of how we watch the game. The broadcast angle doesn’t show the coverage guys. Team success is correlated with how well coverage is. Pass rush and coverage are correlated, but the direction arrow points more towards coverage helping pass rush more than the other way around.” He points out that the smartest team in the league, the New England Patriots, has spent big on two cornerbacks this decade, Stephon Gilmore and Darrelle Revis, and not on pass rushers.
If Kansas City wanted to improve its defense, the front office should have allocated those resources — all that cap space and that first-round pick — on the secondary. That would have been the most effective way to maximize this window while Mahomes is on his rookie deal.
What’s more, Mahomes is already a top-tier quarterback. He’s not in that “Let’s hurry up and build around this rookie while he’s still cheap” class. Kansas City did not need to be in a rush to maximize its Super Bowl window, because Mahomes’ play would have done that on its own.
There are two viable paths to winning in the NFL today: Having an elite-level quarterback or having a solid one making below market money. The Chiefs had both! There was no need to make a win-now move that could possibly limit the front office’s ability to build around Mahomes in the future. It could’ve done so naturally, as Mahomes continued to grow as a quarterback.
Instead, the Chiefs gave up astonishing value and cap space to acquire a player who will only marginally improve the team’s defense. And they gave up the opportunity to add a cheap star on Thursday night for the right to do it. Grades
Chiefs: D-
Kansas City needed pass rush and they got it, which is the only thing keeping this deal from being a total failure. Frank Clark is a young, dominant pass rush who should continue to get better. But with a first-round pick in a draft loaded with pass rushers, the Chiefs could have found a similarly productive player without handing out an eight-figure contract. Or, they could have just re-signed Houston or Ford, saved money and kept their pick. Seahawks: A
It’s going to be tough moving on from a talented player like Clark, but these are the kind of moves smart teams make. As good as Clark is, he’s not worth over $100 million — no pass rusher is. Especially with cheap pass rushers hitting the market every offseason and a draft class full of intriguing edge prospects. Seattle won a Super Bowl with undervalued pass rushers like Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril and Chris Clemons. Pete Carroll knows he can build a dominant defense without breaking the bank for a defensive end.
This is just fucking stupid.
Houston would have counted like 22M on the cap had we kept him, so you can't really make this argument because we would have never been able to have Houston on a modest deal, plus he's aging, declining in productivity, and oh yeah almost forgot, Ford did't have a position in our new scheme.
Articles like this just make casual readers of sports information dumber. [Reply]
Frank Clarks twitter picture is Chappelle as Rick James...I like him more already.
I need someone to explain this to me.....had the Chiefs traded 29 and next years second to move up for Ferrell or Sweat and gotten a 3rd round swap out of the deal...everyone would suck their dick about what a good move it is...
But making that same move for a proven player makes it bad?
It's like having a bunch of money in the bank account and a shit house is better than fixing your house. [Reply]
Originally Posted by CupidStunt:
The part about outbidding the Colts and Jets is relevant. It's GOOD to be that team. You don't want to be the fan of a team like the Colts who just sit around holding their dick, hoping to collect the scraps after the big boys have had their prime cut.
Others wanted Mathieu and we got him.
Others wanted Mahomes and *WE* got him, making a huge splash in a move that many idiots questioned.
Swing for the fences or go home. We've been suffering solid doubles for decades.
Precisely...
The Colts have all that cap space and what to show for it? A bunch of fucking JAGs littered throughout their roster. If they play in January again, I’ll have my money on KC blowing them out again at this point. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Mecca:
Frank Clarks twitter picture is Chappelle as Rick James...I like him more already.
I need someone to explain this to me.....had the Chiefs traded 29 and next years second to move up for Ferrell or Sweat and gotten a 3rd round swap out of the deal...everyone would suck their dick about what a good move it is...
But making that same move for a proven player makes it bad?
It's like having a bunch of money in the bank account and a shit house is better than fixing your house.
Yep. Pretty much. I don't get it. I thought a trade for Clark just made too much sense for the Chiefs. We act like pick 29 is some pot of gold until we hate who we select with it. [Reply]
The Colts have all that cap space and what to show for it? A bunch of fucking JAGs littered throughout their roster. If they play in January again, I’ll have my money on KC blowing them out again at this point.
If he misses on any picks he will basically Green Bay their team...
If you’re a casual football fan and you look at what the Chiefs have done in isolation, we look like muppets. (USA Today column? Seriously? Probably the most vanilla thing out there. I didn’t even know it was still in existence until this morning.)
After all, we had the best pass rush in the league last year, jettisoned both of our elite edge rushers, then had to trade draft picks to get an elite edge rusher back and fork out 100mm+.
But if you understand...
1. Houston’s cap hit was prohibitive and he refused restructuring
2. Ford wasn’t in the team’s long-term plans given that he’s one dimensional
3. We have an entirely new defensive staff who are switching up the scheme and bringing in players who fit the mold
...then it seems totally reasonable. I’ll ignore the idiots who don’t understand the concept of deadweight loss and who forgot that we had the worst defense in football last year. [Reply]