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Originally Posted by mr. tegu:
Cool, thanks. I am not sure what those letters refer to but I have seen a few theories and other things here and there so I might have heard already. Are those letters referencing names of people, places, or something else?
Its all speculation because the books at George R.R.'s write rate will be finished 30 years from now. No one knows for sure. The books are not even close to R+L= J
But R+L= J in laymans terms, leaving books full of material out of the paragraph. And I'm sure grief from book readers...........
Spoiler!
Basically its by far the most popular theory on how this all ends up. Danerys, Tyrion and Snow ride the 3 dragons with an army and take over the kingdoms. Snow is the least certain but its almost universally accepted that Danerys and Tyrion are two of the riders.
Originally Posted by BigRedChief:
Its all speculation because the books at George R.R.'s write rate will be finished 30 years from now. No one knows for sure. The books are not even close to R+L= J
But R+L= J in laymans terms, leaving books full of material out of the paragraph. And I'm sure grief from book readers...........
Spoiler!
Basically its by far the most popular theory on how this all ends up. Danerys, Tyrion and Snow ride the 3 dragons with an army and take over the kingdoms. Snow is the least certain but its almost universally accepted that Danerys and Tyrion are two of the riders.
Not quite BRC, you're talking about Dany's vision in the House of Undying in the books where she sees her brother prince Rhaegar and he is talking about how the dragon has three heads. Most people think that means three people will ride the dragons, but I'd say Dany is the only certain one right now, Tyrion and John Snow are possible but are both pretty uncertain as well. One of them could even end up being Bran warging a dragon, or the vision could be false altogether. But R+L=J is a bit simpler than all that.
If you haven't read the books, and if you don't already know about R+L=J, then I'd advise you to let it play out this season as it will almost certainly be confirmed on the show this season (not yet confirmed in books, but most people accept it as true), and it would be way cooler to see it on the show than to have someone on a message board tell you about it. The show actually hinted at it last season, but you'd probably only pick up on the hints if you already knew about it.
Anyway, all that is to say there are still some potential spoilers this season for non-readers, some of which could be pretty major. I think they will get covered in the first few episodes though, so the wait should not be too long. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Hawk:
Mostly. There are still a few things covered in the books and discussed in here that have not been covered on the show but look like they may be (or are rumored to be) covered in the coming season.
However, I'm not sure any of them are huge spoilers except R+L=J, which would be a huge spoiler if you don't know what that is already, though it is still an unproven theory at this point, and I think even most non-readers already know about that one by now.
LSH is another big one, though it is not that likely to happen on the show, and most non-readers also know about it by now.
Iron Island / Greyjoy stuff from the books will for sure be covered this season based on the trailers, but none of that is as big a spoiler as the two I mentioned above.
Originally Posted by mr. tegu:
Cool, thanks. I am not sure what those letters refer to but I have seen a few theories and other things here and there so I might have heard already. Are those letters referencing names of people, places, or something else?
OK, Sr. Tegu.
R+L=J
Spoiler!
Rhaegar Targaryen + Lyanna Stark= Jon Snow. The vast majority of book readers believe Jon Stargaryen is Azor Ahai/The Prince That Was Promised
LSH
Spoiler!
LSH= Lady Stoneheart, who is the revived corpse of Catelyn Stark thanks to Beric Dondarrion.
Generations of compound inbreeding have preserved in the Targaryen bloodline the classic Valyrian features of silver-white (platinum blonde) hair, and very fair, pale skin. Allegedly, this also preserved in their bloodline the ability to successfully bond with and ride dragons. They also seem to be somewhat more tolerant of extreme heat and high temperatures than other people, though they are by no means invulnerable to fire – or at least, not all of them. [Reply]
Rhaegar Targaryen + Lyanna Stark= Jon Snow. The vast majority of book readers believe Jon Stargaryen is Azor Ahai/The Prince That Was Promised
LSH
Spoiler!
LSH= Lady Stoneheart, who is the revived corpse of Catelyn Stark thanks to Beric Dondarrion.
Well, I wasn't going to say anything, but since it's out there, I'll add a little more explanation for those that want it:
Spoiler!
The books strongly hint that Jon Snow is really not the bastard son of Ned Stark, but is the child of Lyanna Stark (Ned's sister) and Rhaegar Targaryan. Rhaegar supposedly kidnapped Lyanna (though most readers think they were in love based on hints in the books) which helped lead to Robert Baratheon and Ned Stark overthrowing Mad King Aerys (Rhaegar's crazy dad) and to Robert also killing Rhaegar in battle. Lyanna was betrothed to Robert and he loved her.
After they take King's Landing and the war is basically over and Robert is now King, Ned and 6 of his men go to find Lyanna who is being kept in the Tower of Joy in Dorne. Ned and his men have to fight three kingsguard men who are loyal to the Targaryans and are guarding the tower resulting in only Ned and Howland Reed (Meera and Jojen's dad) surviving. Ned then goes up and finds Lyanna dying in her "bed of blood" and she makes Ned promise her something important, then she dies.
The books don't say what the promise was for sure, or how she died, it's all a bit fuzzy as it was Ned dreaming while fevered from his injury when fighting Jaime Lannister, but it is assumed that Lyanna died in childbirth (thus the "bed of bloood") and that the promise was that Ned would raise the baby, Jon Snow, as his bastard so that Robert would not know the baby is really a Targaryan and have him killed. You see how Robert wanted Dany killed.
The main evidence is the fact that Ned had to kill the three kingsguard men to get to his own sister, even after the Targaryan king and prince were already dead. Why? Likely answer is they were protecting a baby Targaryan, not protecting Ned's sister from her own brother. Plus there's the fact that nobody really believes Ned would have broken his honor and fathered a bastard, that story never really made sense given Ned's character.
The trailers for the show this season have made it pretty clear that they are going to show the Tower of Joy scene through a Bran vision, so most likely they would only do that to confirm that Jon is a Targaryan.
The show hinted at this last season when in one episode, they had Littlefinger discuss Lyanna and act like Lyanna and Rhaegar were likely in love, they had Stannis mention that it was not Ned's way to father a bastard, and they had Melisandre tell Jon that there is power in him, power to cast big shadows (in other words, he has king's blood in him).
So if Jon is a Targ, then he could be one of the three heads of the dragon and ride one of the dragons, plus he is also likely to be Azor Ahai or the Prince that was promised (Melisandre was clearly wrong in thinking Stannis was Azor Ahai). That just means Jon would be the key to defeating the others and saving Westeros from the long night.
This is also why it is hard to believe Jon is really dead for good at this point in the story.
Originally Posted by Hawk:
Well, I wasn't going to say anything, but since it's out there, I'll add a little more explanation for those that want it:
Spoiler!
The books strongly hint that Jon Snow is really not the bastard son of Ned Stark, but is the child of Lyanna Stark (Ned's sister) and Rhaegar Targaryan. Rhaegar supposedly kidnapped Lyanna (though most readers think they were in love based on hints in the books) which helped lead to Robert Baratheon and Ned Stark overthrowing Mad King Aerys (Rhaegar's crazy dad) and to Robert also killing Rhaegar in battle. Lyanna was betrothed to Robert and he loved her.
After they take King's Landing and the war is basically over and Robert is now King, Ned and 6 of his men go to find Lyanna who is being kept in the Tower of Joy in Dorne. Ned and his men have to fight three kingsguard men who are loyal to the Targaryans and are guarding the tower resulting in only Ned and Howland Reed (Meera and Jojen's dad) surviving. Ned then goes up and finds Lyanna dying in her "bed of blood" and she makes Ned promise her something important, then she dies.
The books don't say what the promise was for sure, or how she died, it's all a bit fuzzy as it was Ned dreaming while fevered from his injury when fighting Jaime Lannister, but it is assumed that Lyanna died in childbirth (thus the "bed of bloood") and that the promise was that Ned would raise the baby, Jon Snow, as his bastard so that Robert would not know the baby is really a Targaryan and have him killed. You see how Robert wanted Dany killed.
The main evidence is the fact that Ned had to kill the three kingsguard men to get to his own sister, even after the Targaryan king and prince were already dead. Why? Likely answer is they were protecting a baby Targaryan, not protecting Ned's sister from her own brother. Plus there's the fact that nobody really believes Ned would have broken his honor and fathered a bastard, that story never really made sense given Ned's character.
The trailers for the show this season have made it pretty clear that they are going to show the Tower of Joy scene through a Bran vision, so most likely they would only do that to confirm that Jon is a Targaryan.
The show hinted at this last season when in one episode, they had Littlefinger discuss Lyanna and act like Lyanna and Rhaegar were likely in love, they had Stannis mention that it was not Ned's way to father a bastard, and they had Melisandre tell Jon that there is power in him, power to cast big shadows (in other words, he has king's blood in him).
So if Jon is a Targ, then he could be one of the three heads of the dragon and ride one of the dragons, plus he is also likely to be Azor Ahai or the Prince that was promised (Melisandre was clearly wrong in thinking Stannis was Azor Ahai). That just means Jon would be the key to defeating the others and saving Westeros from the long night.
This is also why it is hard to believe Jon is really dead for good at this point in the story.
Originally Posted by RustShack:
Generations of compound inbreeding have preserved in the Targaryen bloodline the classic Valyrian features of silver-white (platinum blonde) hair, and very fair, pale skin. Allegedly, this also preserved in their bloodline the ability to successfully bond with and ride dragons. They also seem to be somewhat more tolerant of extreme heat and high temperatures than other people, though they are by no means invulnerable to fire – or at least, not all of them.
Are you drunk when you post in this thread? [Reply]
Originally Posted by Hawk:
Well, I wasn't going to say anything, but since it's out there, I'll add a little more explanation for those that want it:
Spoiler!
The books strongly hint that Jon Snow is really not the bastard son of Ned Stark, but is the child of Lyanna Stark (Ned's sister) and Rhaegar Targaryan. Rhaegar supposedly kidnapped Lyanna (though most readers think they were in love based on hints in the books) which helped lead to Robert Baratheon and Ned Stark overthrowing Mad King Aerys (Rhaegar's crazy dad) and to Robert also killing Rhaegar in battle. Lyanna was betrothed to Robert and he loved her.
After they take King's Landing and the war is basically over and Robert is now King, Ned and 6 of his men go to find Lyanna who is being kept in the Tower of Joy in Dorne. Ned and his men have to fight three kingsguard men who are loyal to the Targaryans and are guarding the tower resulting in only Ned and Howland Reed (Meera and Jojen's dad) surviving. Ned then goes up and finds Lyanna dying in her "bed of blood" and she makes Ned promise her something important, then she dies.
The books don't say what the promise was for sure, or how she died, it's all a bit fuzzy as it was Ned dreaming while fevered from his injury when fighting Jaime Lannister, but it is assumed that Lyanna died in childbirth (thus the "bed of bloood") and that the promise was that Ned would raise the baby, Jon Snow, as his bastard so that Robert would not know the baby is really a Targaryan and have him killed. You see how Robert wanted Dany killed.
The main evidence is the fact that Ned had to kill the three kingsguard men to get to his own sister, even after the Targaryan king and prince were already dead. Why? Likely answer is they were protecting a baby Targaryan, not protecting Ned's sister from her own brother. Plus there's the fact that nobody really believes Ned would have broken his honor and fathered a bastard, that story never really made sense given Ned's character.
The trailers for the show this season have made it pretty clear that they are going to show the Tower of Joy scene through a Bran vision, so most likely they would only do that to confirm that Jon is a Targaryan.
The show hinted at this last season when in one episode, they had Littlefinger discuss Lyanna and act like Lyanna and Rhaegar were likely in love, they had Stannis mention that it was not Ned's way to father a bastard, and they had Melisandre tell Jon that there is power in him, power to cast big shadows (in other words, he has king's blood in him).
So if Jon is a Targ, then he could be one of the three heads of the dragon and ride one of the dragons, plus he is also likely to be Azor Ahai or the Prince that was promised (Melisandre was clearly wrong in thinking Stannis was Azor Ahai). That just means Jon would be the key to defeating the others and saving Westeros from the long night.
This is also why it is hard to believe Jon is really dead for good at this point in the story.
Which was my point of my explanation of R+L=J not what the literal translation was but when "most people", not being hard core GOT'rs talk about the eventual ending and the R+L=J theory. This is what they are talking about.
Well done sir!
Snow could never have been Ned's bastard son. It would be against everything that makes Ned, Ned. I figured that out the first season before reading the books.
Now, who's son is it? With the book dream scene and looks like the Tower of joy will be in this TV's season. We will know for sure. [Reply]
Tyrion being a Targaryen makes sense too, and why his "father" kept him around. Wouldn't want people knowing the love of his wife had a child with someone else. He also has said a few things such as "I have no way of proving you aren't my son". And that would also be another reason he's told he will never have Castely Rock. He just loved his wife so much he kept her child.
Side note that would make Danys, Jons, and Tyrions mothers all die at child birth. They are the three dragons. [Reply]
