Kansas City is trading its first-round pick Thursday night, along with three other picks in the 2021 and 2022 drafts, to the Baltimore Ravens in exchange for Pro Bowl OT Orlando Brown and one pick in the 2021 draft and another in 2022, per sources.
Originally Posted by O.city:
I'd rather have Williams as of right now he's a better LT.
They pivoted to the next thing. Is what it is.
Would you rather have an aging Trent Williams or a 24 year old 2 time pro bowl tackle? Also throw in Jarran Reed because we were able to get him because of not signing Williams. So Williams or Brown and Reed? [Reply]
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
Sorry Dude, not buying it.
Maybe you and a few of the guys in the draft forum felt that trading for Brown wasn't feasible and/or not a fit but there's a thread with more than a 1,430 responses, with only 37 of which even mention OBJ, and most of those are against that trade, not for it.
In hindsight, it's really easy to say "Well, the Chiefs came out better than if they had signed Williams and kept all of their draft choices" but that's just a rationalization. There's no proof of that existing at this point in time and it's crystal clear that the Chiefs first choice was Williams and their full compliment of draft choices.
If people are going say things like "Whatever Veach thinks is okay with me!" or "Trust in Veach!", then clearly, those same people should realize that his first choice was Williams and his full compliment of 2021 draft selections.
To say otherwise is clearly disingenuous.
Well, again to be fair, there might only be 37 mentions of Brown because people didn't think it was possible so it wasn't worth bringing up. The absence of comments really isn't proof of anything, it's just anecdotal.
And no, saying the Chiefs may have come out better isn't a rationalization of a clearly inferior option. We all know Williams was the Chiefs' first choice. Almost all of us also wanted Williams as our first choice.
The simple fact is that it didn't happen and what many people thought would never happen - the Ravens trading with the Chiefs - did. Not only that but we got a 2nd rounder back out of the deal, which we essentially got by giving up our 4th because the #58 pick is still within about 40 picks of where we were in the 3rd.
Of course, looking at 2021, Trent Williams and a full compliment of draft picks was the best option and also the one that pretty much everybody wanted, Veach AND CP.
But to look back at it now and see no silver lining is just not being honest. It absolutely did work out great for KC and while it might not have been the best case scenario, it's certainly good enough to say "fuck it, it doesn't matter" about missing out on Williams. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
yeah, the potential for having a 10 year answer here is pretty awesome.
This is said all too frequently and rarely occurs.
The Chiefs drafted Eric Fisher #1 overall with the expectation that he'll be the left tackle "for the next ten years!".
Fisher lasted 8 years.
Take a look around the league and you'll find very few offensive lineman, especially left tackles, that have been with their team as a starter for 10 years.
There is one thing about it that hasn't been mentioned yet.
Williams, to come here at all, would have needed a new contract. Even with a standard backloaded contract like he got from SF, we would have had control of him for 2 years and the option to cut him or renegotiate after that o save cap space.
Brown is going to play out his contract. They have him for 1 year plus the tag but the tag doesn't usually go over very well.
So Brown being the long-term answer is more desirable, yes. But it's not yet a given. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
This is said all too frequently and rarely occurs.
The Chiefs drafted Eric Fisher #1 overall with the expectation that he'll be the left tackle "for the next ten years!".
Fisher lasted 8 years.
Take a look around the league and you'll find very few offensive lineman, especially left tackles, that have been with their team as a starter for 10 years.
It's just Draft Speak.
Yep. Said this over and over when talking about trading up in the draft. You're basically guaranteed about 3 years with a vet and 4 with a rookie.
After that, longevity comes on a case-by-base basis. [Reply]
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Well, again to be fair, there might only be 37 mentions of Brown because people didn't think it was possible so it wasn't worth bringing up. The absence of comments really isn't proof of anything, it's just anecdotal.
Sorry Dude, again, I just read them. Most people that posted in that thread didn't even know that OBJ existed as a possibility.
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
And no, saying the Chiefs may have come out better isn't a rationalization of a clearly inferior option. We all know Williams was the Chiefs' first choice. Almost all of us also wanted Williams as our first choice.
Oh, come on! Of course it's a rationalization.
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
The simple fact is that it didn't happen and what many people thought would never happen - the Ravens trading with the Chiefs - did.
Yeah, but again, that's not based in reality, either. Harbaugh came up with Reid and owes his career to him. He worked with Veach and others in the Chiefs front office and helped to convince Terrell Suggs to report to the Chiefs during the 2019 season after he was cut.
Orlando Brown, Sr. spent his career with the Browns/Ravens and helped out with the team after he retired. They drafted his son in 2018 and as I've stated several times, the Ravens were always going to do OBJ right because of his father and the family's relationship with the team and its owner(s).
Furthermore, why wouldn't the Ravens trade with the Chiefs if they're offering the best compensation? Did you actually expect OBJ to sit on the bench for the entirety of 2021, only to walk in Free Agency, with the Ravens only receiving a 3rd round comp in 2023?
Come on, Dude. Of course the Ravens would take #31, a 3rd, 4th and 2022 5th over a 2023 3rd round draft pick. They can load up their roster this year, which is what the Ravens do each and every year but now, they have more firepower than ever to get their guys.
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
But to look back at it now and see no silver lining is just not being honest. It absolutely did work out great for KC and while it might not have been the best case scenario, it's certainly good enough to say "fuck it, it doesn't matter" about missing out on Williams.
The "Silver Lining" is unknown. Sure, it's more likely than not that OBJ will be a great addition to the offensive line and the loss of draft picks in a weird 2021 draft isn't a huge, game changing deal.
But again, that's all a rationalization because if Trent Williams had signed with the Chiefs, this wouldn't even have been a discussion. Instead, everyone would be focused on Thursday Night's pick at #31.
Once again, I think this was a great trade for the Chiefs but there's no way I'm going to say that this trade was "better" than signing the best left tackle in the NFL while keeping all of their draft selections. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
This is said all too frequently and rarely occurs.
The Chiefs drafted Eric Fisher #1 overall with the expectation that he'll be the left tackle "for the next ten years!".
Fisher lasted 8 years.
Take a look around the league and you'll find very few offensive lineman, especially left tackles, that have been with their team as a starter for 10 years.
It's just Draft Speak.
It depends. If Fisher doesn’t get injured he’s on our team for his 9th season here. If Fisher ruptured his Achilles at the beginning of last season, I think he likely comes back as well.
It was just horrible timing on his part.
To be fair to Fish, he was average. He was competent which was nice, but Brown Jr has already matched Fisher’s career accomplishments of being a 2 time pro bowl player and he’s only 24.
Brown could legitimately be a top 5 LT that they don’t want to get rid of [Reply]
Williams is an objectively better player than Brown. That’s not a debate. Brown would agree. But Williams will turn 33 this summer, and as a free agent would have been making big money right away.
Brown will turn 25 next month, so if he’s a top 10 or 15 left tackle right now there’s reason to believe he has a chance to be in the top five soon. The contract extension he’ll (likely) sign won’t be as big as Williams’, and he’s scheduled for a $3.3 million cap hit this season.
Here's Mellingers thoughts on it. Which, seems about right I suppose. [Reply]
