Originally Posted by raybec 4:
I wonder of Ollie felt just a little threatened having Skip in the clubhouse. By all accounts I've heard the players really liked Skip and he was a good coach. I don't know why they'd let him walk otherwise.
They didn't let him walk he got a job as a manager. [Reply]
Originally Posted by jd1020:
Maybe if you trade Masyn Winn in a deal for Murphy. I wouldn't be expecting to dump a 7+ year contract on a SS after they were reluctant to trade prospects for Soto.
They passed on Soto because "Noot got hot" :-) so I'm sure they'll invent a reason to not make a splash [Reply]
Originally Posted by jd1020:
Regardless of what happened with Harper, I dont see where it makes sense to drop a large contract on a SS if the Cardinals truly believe in Winn as the future. If all goes well he could be looking at a 2024 call up. Tommy Edman just turned into the best version of Kolten Wong and can hold down SS for a year.
Going after a catcher or Aaron Judge make much more sense to me from a Cardinals perspective, again assuming Winn is still involved in the team.
That's really the problem with the Cardinals.
They don't need anymore 'pretty good'. What they needed was a fiery corner OFer with power and OBP skills. They needed Bryce !@#$ing Harper.
What they got was...not that.
But I think if they decided to make a splash (they won't), the guy they should chase would be Trae Turner. Turner's on-base skills and power/speed combo make him the ideal top of the order hitter they haven't had ahead of Goldschmidt and Arenado.
And if Winn is as advertised, you always have the option of putting him or Edman in the OF, where both could excel. It's not like they have a legit long-term CFer anyway.
But Mozeliak's team building philosophy of just stacking the system with decent players has led to this glut of 'meh' guys. Walker may be breaking through that mold, but it's just jammed full of otherwise solid but unspectacular ballplayers.
Brendan Donovan is as pretty much the living embodiment of the Cardinals draft approach right now.
I mean you could honestly look at this roster with the 'but X' lense and say they don't need anything. Well TON got MVP votes two seasons ago, can't block him. Walker's probably headed to RF sooner rather than later, can't block him. We wouldn't include Carlson in a deal for Soto so clearly he's the CF of the future. Arenado and Goldy at the corners, Edman and Donovan, two gold glove winners, up the middle. Shit, you could even say the same nonsense about the starting rotation "well we have Matz coming back, Mikolas under contract, Flaherty is due to return to form, Montgomery is back next season as is Wainwright, Hudson won 15 games not long ago, we don't want to block Liberatore, Hence or Graceffo. Thompson looked great in his cup of coffee last year..."
So you go into the offseason with that mindset and you end up with a C, a middle reliever and a bench bat.
Any team - literally every single one - that looks for a reason not to do something, can find a reason not to do something.
Meanwhile the Cardinals were a team that played .500 ball outside of the NL Central last season and won't get that unbalanced schedule to save their asses going forward.
If there is a premium player interested in playing for them - sign him and worry about the rest later. This team isn't as good as the BFIB think it is and won't be in the coming years either. [Reply]
I would still say, from a Cardinals perspective, I would be backing up the Brinks truck in Judge's driveway over any of the SS's. He or Walker could move to LF when Walker is ready. Tyler O'Neill can go cry a river somewhere. That dude doesnt make enough contact to ever be consistent. How the fuck he even managed to put together a season worthy of MVP votes while striking out in 31% of his PA's is beyond me.
Keep Edman at SS for all it matters and trade Winn in a package for Murphy. Edman just played much better defense at SS than any of the free agents not named Swanson. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
That's really the problem with the Cardinals.
They don't need anymore 'pretty good'. What they needed was a fiery corner OFer with power and OBP skills. They needed Bryce !@#$ing Harper.
What they got was...not that.
But I think if they decided to make a splash (they won't), the guy they should chase would be Trae Turner. Turner's on-base skills and power/speed combo make him the ideal top of the order hitter they haven't had ahead of Goldschmidt and Arenado.
And if Winn is as advertised, you always have the option of putting him or Edman in the OF, where both could excel. It's not like they have a legit long-term CFer anyway.
But Mozeliak's team building philosophy of just stacking the system with decent players has led to this glut of 'meh' guys. Walker may be breaking through that mold, but it's just jammed full of otherwise solid but unspectacular ballplayers.
Brendan Donovan is as pretty much the living embodiment of the Cardinals draft approach right now.
I mean you could honestly look at this roster with the 'but X' lense and say they don't need anything. Well TON got MVP votes two seasons ago, can't block him. Walker's probably headed to RF sooner rather than later, can't block him. We wouldn't include Carlson in a deal for Soto so clearly he's the CF of the future. Arenado and Goldy at the corners, Edman and Donovan, two gold glove winners, up the middle. Shit, you could even say the same nonsense about the starting rotation "well we have Matz coming back, Mikolas under contract, Flaherty is due to return to form, Montgomery is back next season as is Wainwright, Hudson won 15 games not long ago, we don't want to block Liberatore, Hence or Graceffo. Thompson looked great in his cup of coffee last year..."
So you go into the offseason with that mindset and you end up with a C, a middle reliever and a bench bat.
Any team - literally every single one - that looks for a reason not to do something, can find a reason not to do something.
Meanwhile the Cardinals were a team that played .500 ball outside of the NL Central last season and won't get that unbalanced schedule to save their asses going forward.
If there is a premium player interested in playing for them - sign him and worry about the rest later. This team isn't as good as the BFIB think it is and won't be in the coming years either.
Who is Trae Turner is the answer to the jeopardy question. IMO opinion, Turner and a Catcher is what should happen. [Reply]
Originally Posted by jd1020:
I would still say, from a Cardinals perspective, I would be backing up the Brinks truck in Judge's driveway over any of the SS's. He or Walker could move to LF when Walker is ready. Tyler O'Neill can go cry a river somewhere. That dude doesnt make enough contact to ever be consistent. How the fuck he even managed to put together a season worthy of MVP votes while striking out in 31% of his PA's is beyond me.
Keep Edman at SS for all it matters and trade Winn in a package for Murphy. Edman just played much better defense at SS than any of the free agents not named Swanson.
Edman, weirdly, may be the best overall defender in baseball if his versatility is taken into account. Who'd have ever seen that coming? [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Edman, weirdly, may be the best overall defender in baseball if his versatility is taken into account. Who'd have ever seen that coming?
Ya I would be chillin with Edman and Donovan up the middle. As long as Edman can continue with his progress at the plate and defensively you are set. Donovan isn't all that great of a defender but the dude has been an OBP machine his entire career.
If you got Judge and traded for Murphy the top of your lineup would be ****ing disgusting. Then at some point Walker comes in and your worst hitters become Edman and Carlson, but Edman isn't even a bad hitter and Carlson plays the catcher equivalent of the outfield where you can live with a mediocre bat. [Reply]
Originally Posted by jd1020:
Ya I would be chillin with Edman and Donovan up the middle. As long as Edman can continue with his progress at the plate and defensively you are set. Donovan isn't all that great of a defender but the dude has been an OBP machine his entire career.
If you got Judge and traded for Murphy the top of your lineup would be ****ing disgusting. Then at some point Walker comes in and your worst hitters become Edman and Carlson, but Edman isn't even a bad hitter and Carlson plays the catcher equivalent of the outfield where you can live with a mediocre bat.
Moving on from the fucking black hole that was Molina - 2 years too late - will do wonders for the lineup depth.
Carlson can't be an everyday player if he keeps putting up a sub .700 OPS against righties. But if you found a difference maker in the corner, you could get by with a Noot/Carlson platoon in CF. [Reply]
Since Mo ****ed up letting Harper sign with Philly and not signing The HOF home town pitcher Mo and Dewitt can start to make up for it by signing Judge, put him in RF and call it good this off season. [Reply]
