Originally Posted by JPH83:
Yeah, always baffling that Dorsey gets railed and Veach is beyond reproach for some here. I mean, Dorsey is an absolute POS who also f**ked up plenty, but he kinda drafted some essential pieces for us.
I get the Veach worship to an extent but his track record is more chequered than some will admit. What I like is he seems to recognise mistakes and act to correct them (Clark aside).
Interestingly, Dorsey has been with the Lions for going on two years. I'm not sure what to make of that, but thought it was interesting. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
I thought our skill players were pretty good yesterday. Kelce and Juju had great days over 100+ yards, Hardman had a couple of good catches and a TD, MVS had a TD but a bad penalty took it away and Moore flashed.
We need a pass rush more than anything. It’s a big problem
That and our OT's are BAD.
Regarding the pass rush, that was one of the things Veach identified as a problem after last season... [Reply]
Originally Posted by Mecca:
That is a fair criticism, another one is saying they made a panic move for a LT that doesn't fit their system while never doing anything about RT.
I think Veach's answer for RT post-Schwartz was Niang.
And he's a combination of suckage/made of glass. [Reply]
Originally Posted by New World Order:
He did a fantastic job rounding out the defense in 2019 which was a big reason for our SB. No question about it.
But his inability to draft good players at skill positions, specifically offense is hurting us right now.
If any of those picks in the last 5 years could have just given us a legit receiver, running back, RT or edge then we probably beat Buffalo yesterday.
I'm sorry, but this is just a stupid way to look at this.
That loss was not on Veach. Mahomes and Andy take more of the blame for that.
I also completely reject this idea that there's an "inability to draft good players at skill positions".
Can we please give guys like Skyy and Pacheco more than 6 games? JFC.
Those guys have clealry shown flashes, and the talent is there. The opportunities will come. It just feels like a complete lack of patience with many of you. It's as if you've already written those guys off. Fucking relax and allow things to play out. [Reply]
Originally Posted by OKchiefs:
So you’re hanging your hat on Veach turning the defense from complete shit to just okay?
Also, Veach has been credited with the OL rebuild. Well, the tackles are as bad as ever, so…
Lol, nice hot take. Like we should expect the GM to just pull an entire top-10 caliber OL, complete with a pair of All-Pro OTs your n a single draft class. Okay.
He also just pulled a All-Pro C and a G out of the draft, and signed another premier level G. Rebuilt 3/5th of the OL in a few weeks. Do you guys have any idea how incredibly good that is? And OBJ might or might not end up being our LT down the road, but let’s be honest: he’s a huge improvement over who we had in that SB loss at TB.
Bottom line this OL is light years better than that abomination, and our demolishing of TB proved it. Don’t tell me this OL isn’t good enough. That’s job BS. They aren’t perfect, but no one in the NFL has perfect. And there’s still some upside to be seen with these guys.
And I have news for you guys: there no Travis Kelce 2.0 waiting out there. We aren’t going to find another HOF TE in next year’s draft. Or the next one. Or ever. He’s like Tyreek; there is no substitute.
What is going to happen is Andy/veach will find two guys to replace most of what Kelce has been doing. And that’s literally the best we can expect. Come on, you should know better than to think you can just draft another Travis or Tyreek. That’s just stupid.
And what idiot thinks any team can just take 12 picks and draft perfect fits at every position of need? Show me a GM that has consistently did that.
The best GMs ever maybe hit on a third of their picks.
So since Veach became GM he’s rebuilt the defense attorney on every level, and last season he rebuilt the IOL from scratch. Yes, he reached for Hardman, but at the time he was scrambling to potentially replace Tyreek’s ability to take the top off the defense, right? And Hardman may not be Tyreek (stupid to think he was going to), but he definitely can do that, and he’s becoming a complete WR.
Lastly, in 2019,Veach put that roster together with about 30% from the draft, 30% from free agency/waivers, and about 25% from trades. Give or take a few percentage points here and there.
Veach has drafted fairly well, and in some cases extremely well. He managed to figure out how to sign Pat to a gigantism deal that’s also somehow team-friendly, ditto CJ, as well as extending Kelce. He turned Trading Hill not 5 picks, several of whom are promising.
You guys really need to look around the league, or jeez, just look at the shit show we had right in KC before Andy showed up.
CP is filled with a lot of whiny spoiled brats lately. [Reply]
You would think we got our ass kicked the way people want to blame Veach for that loss.
That wasn't an issue of us just not having the talent/team to go toe to toe with the best team in the NFL.
We had that game, even with all the injuries and Gay's suspension. Not to mention we've all acknowledged that we're in a bit of a transition period, while the Bills are all-in.
How the fuck do you come out of that game bitching about Veach and not Andy/Pat? [Reply]
Well, the game did magnify some pretty glaring issues with the roster building. I'll give him a pass on the WR position since that was always going to be a multi year rebuild after pivoting to trading Hill instead of extending him, but the OT and DE positions have been issues for long enough and they're still hampering us badly. [Reply]
Originally Posted by JPH83:
Yeah, always baffling that Dorsey gets railed and Veach is beyond reproach for some here. I mean, Dorsey is an absolute POS who also f**ked up plenty, but he kinda drafted some essential pieces for us.
I get the Veach worship to an extent but his track record is more chequered than some will admit. What I like is he seems to recognise mistakes and act to correct them (Clark aside).
It's because stupid people fail to understand nuisance.
Being able to evaluate talent and being a good General Manager is two different things. Dorsey couldn't handle the 2nd thing and that's why he's not a lackey for a shitty Lions team. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BryanBusby:
It's because stupid people fail to understand nuance.
Being able to evaluate talent and being a good General Manager is two different things. Dorsey couldn't handle the 2nd thing and that's why he's not a lackey for a shitty Lions team.
Originally Posted by OKchiefs:
Those 3 picks just so happen to be our best players by far. Without Kelce, Mahomes, and Jones this team is complete shit. 5 years in and he’s yet to draft anyone of that caliber. Keep in mind Veach has now been in KC as the GM just about as long as Dorsey was.
Originally Posted by Mecca:
I mean he's a 5th round pick.
Contributions from guys like that is nice.
I think for the most part the Chiefs have drafted well, the CEH miss hurts pretty bad because of positional value.
Like the Ravens look stupid because Patrick Queen has been a scrub, you take an off ball LB in the 1st 2 rounds dude better be good.
I remember a certain football message board that had an absolute hard on for Queen and those same draft gurus lauded Baltimore for drafting him. So now he’s a scrub you say? Say it ain’t so. [Reply]
