Originally Posted by Best22:
The thinking was that our offense was filled out everywhere (solid O-line, elite TE, elite QB, elite receiver along with possession guy Sammy Watkins and an emerging (or so we thought) speed receiver in Mecole Hardman. Offense looked stacked we just needed a do it all RB to really complete the offense and head back on another SB run
Grabbing a receiver would’ve seemed to be drafting for depth. A rookie isn’t starting over Hill or Watkins, and why draft another rookie receiver when Hardman showed promise and it was believable he could develop into a solid #3 WR?
Taking a guy like JT still would’ve been a good pick but drafting Higgins would’ve been 200IQ thinking. Too bad we didn’t. If CEH was a Jamaal Charles or even a Kareem Hunt, the offense would’ve been unbelievable. Teams started playing us with alot of 2 deep in 2020 and an elite RB would’ve really opened things up. 33ppg+
My problem is that they drafted him mostly for his receiving abilities when we’ve found guys like Spencer Ware, Damien Williams and Jerrick McKinnon off the street for cheap who can fill that role.
At the time we knew Sammy was inconsistent and hurt a lot. We knew it was his last year here. We knew it was a matter of time. We also knew that Hardman struggled as a receiver.
Hindsight is hindsight but it just made too much sense at the time [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
I remember when people said that Veach (and the Chiefs in general) couldn't draft edge rushers because of Speaks and KPass.
Funny how quickly George Karlaftis made people forget about that narrative.
I'm hopeful that Karlaftis is a huge success but it's entirely too early to make a determination there. DL as a whole has been as big of a struggle in the draft as WR. Just as you say with WR, there has been a lack of picks here as well so I will agree it's not like he's been drafting a bunch of busts. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Best22:
The thinking was that our offense was filled out everywhere (solid O-line, elite TE, elite QB, elite receiver along with possession guy Sammy Watkins and an emerging (or so we thought) speed receiver in Mecole Hardman. Offense looked stacked we just needed a do it all RB to really complete the offense and head back on another SB run
Grabbing a receiver would’ve seemed to be drafting for depth. A rookie isn’t starting over Hill or Watkins, and why draft another rookie receiver when Hardman showed promise and it was believable he could develop into a solid #3 WR?
Taking a guy like JT still would’ve been a good pick but drafting Higgins would’ve been 200IQ thinking. Too bad we didn’t. If CEH was a Jamaal Charles or even a Kareem Hunt, the offense would’ve been unbelievable. Teams started playing us with alot of 2 deep in 2020 and an elite RB would’ve really opened things up. 33ppg+
The thing is though, we know WR take a while to develop in this offense. So Tee Higgins in 2020 would have been a perfect fit because there would have been little pressure for him to produce right away. By 2021 he would have been ready to hit the ground running.
Waiting until you absolutely have to have production from WRs puts this offense in a bind. Let's assume Skyy Moore is ready to contribute heavily by next year. Okay, that's great. Our starting due is probably him and MVS, that's one of the worst starting duos in the league. Okay, so draft someone else to contribute. But that 2023 draft pick, which probably is coming in the 2nd or 3rd again since left tackle in round 1 is probably going to have to happen, very likely isn't ready to contribute until half way through 2023 or by 2024. By 2024 Travis Kelce probably is well into his decline, so you're really counting on these young receivers developing. And just as much as I knock Veach for not finding enough WR talent I think Andy Reid shares a lot of the blame as his track record with both KC and Philly in developing wide receivers is pretty spotty overall. [Reply]
Originally Posted by OKchiefs:
The thing is though, we know WR take a while to develop in this offense. So Tee Higgins in 2020 would have been a perfect fit because there would have been little pressure for him to produce right away. By 2021 he would have been ready to hit the ground running.
Waiting until you absolutely have to have production from WRs puts this offense in a bind. Let's assume Skyy Moore is ready to contribute heavily by next year. Okay, that's great. Our starting due is probably him and MVS, that's one of the worst starting duos in the league. Okay, so draft someone else to contribute. But that 2023 draft pick, which probably is coming in the 2nd or 3rd again since left tackle in round 1 is probably going to have to happen, very likely isn't ready to contribute until half way through 2023 or by 2024. By 2024 Travis Kelce probably is well into his decline, so you're really counting on these young receivers developing. And just as much as I knock Veach for not finding enough WR talent I think Andy Reid shares a lot of the blame as his track record with both KC and Philly in developing wide receivers is pretty spotty overall.
How about you just let Travis Kelce decline whenever he does instead of constantly predicting it's going to happen next Tuesday?
He looks pretty fucking good out there to me. Some guys are just well-conditioned marvels for their age. [Reply]
Originally Posted by OKchiefs:
The thing is though, we know WR take a while to develop in this offense. So Tee Higgins in 2020 would have been a perfect fit because there would have been little pressure for him to produce right away. By 2021 he would have been ready to hit the ground running.
Waiting until you absolutely have to have production from WRs puts this offense in a bind. Let's assume Skyy Moore is ready to contribute heavily by next year. Okay, that's great. Our starting due is probably him and MVS, that's one of the worst starting duos in the league. Okay, so draft someone else to contribute. But that 2023 draft pick, which probably is coming in the 2nd or 3rd again since left tackle in round 1 is probably going to have to happen, very likely isn't ready to contribute until half way through 2023 or by 2024. By 2024 Travis Kelce probably is well into his decline, so you're really counting on these young receivers developing. And just as much as I knock Veach for not finding enough WR talent I think Andy Reid shares a lot of the blame as his track record with both KC and Philly in developing wide receivers is pretty spotty overall.
Offense needs to be a priority in next years draft. Receivers, OT, RB, and TE if you an grab a good one [Reply]
Originally Posted by Best22:
Offense needs to be a priority in next years draft. Receivers, OT, RB, and TE if you an grab a good one
I personally don't think TE is a huge need until Kelce is just about done unless Gray/Fortson just clearly aren't it. Both seem to offer promise as receivers. Bell should continue to be the blocking TE.
Defense is mostly fine at LB and secondary, but DL needs a lot of work so will have to be heavily addressed. I was kind of hoping for the team to double down at DE or get a DT (like Travis Jones) in the 2nd or 3rd this year, but maybe they weren't as high on those guys so who knows. [Reply]
Originally Posted by OKchiefs:
I'm hopeful that Karlaftis is a huge success but it's entirely too early to make a determination there. DL as a whole has been as big of a struggle in the draft as WR. Just as you say with WR, there has been a lack of picks here as well so I will agree it's not like he's been drafting a bunch of busts.
Yep it's way too early. I don't think we'll really know what we've got with GK until next year. If he improves through the year and Danna keeps his form we can ignore Kaindoh and Clark. The Ingram and Dunlap pick ups both looked like good ones to me, though again early on the latter. Who knows, perhaps Herring turns into something. If GK and Danna hit I think we can say Veach has a decent eye for DE.
I don't see any point denying what we've got in CEH and Hardman. We all saw the guys who got picked after them. They're certainly not "good" picks. We don't need to defend every Veach move, he's going to make some mistakes, and he has. [Reply]
Assuming he recovers well, I think Veach needs to sign Beckham. It would make this offense feared again. That’s the move that would turn a pretty good team into a team that could beat Buffalo and win the SB.
Would be huge for Veach’s legacy too. Could really help to make people forget about the Hill trade. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar:
Assuming he recovers well, I think Veach needs to sign Beckham. It would make this offense feared again. That’s the move that would turn a pretty good team into a team that could beat Buffalo and win the SB.
Would be huge for Veach’s legacy too. Could really help to make people forget about the Hill trade.
Beckham can definitely play, unsure if he's a cancer or not. Seemed to work out well for the rams last year. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
How about you just let Travis Kelce decline whenever he does instead of constantly predicting it's going to happen next Tuesday?
He looks pretty fucking good out there to me. Some guys are just well-conditioned marvels for their age.
Right?
I mean, it's likely to start sooner than later but may not happen for a few seasons yet.
He could be like Gonzalez, Witten, Gates, etc, and play until he's 37 or 38 and be highly effective at 35 and 36 then start to decline. We just don't know.
Not that Veach wouldn't be wise to hedge his bets there. Gray doesn't appear to be that type of guy and Fortson is a role player. [Reply]
Originally Posted by OKchiefs:
Not really, still going to need 2-3 more pretty soon at a minimum to offset the eventual decline of Travis Kelce. I don't see why people are crybabies for being concerned with the lack of decent picks on offense.
By now there are some clear areas where Veach has shown both good and less than stellar results.
Biggest hits have been in the secondary, and now that they're finally investing higher draft picks there we're really seeing the results.
Linebacker looks to be pretty good with the picks lately, he's built a solid group that could be great.
Interior OL picks have been very good.
To me those are the biggest areas you can give Veach a lot of credit. Some other areas have been a mixed bag, downright bad, or too early too tell until 2022 picks are able to develop more.
DL draft picks haven't been great, dating back to Breeland Speaks. Karlaftis looks to be a lot better, but we can't say for sure. DL is one of the weakest position groups heading into the offseason next year simply because nearly everyone will be gone before FA or the draft. We'll have Jones, Karlaftis, Herring, and Kaindoh and that's about it. Guys like Saunders, Nnadi, and Wharton are Veach additions that are all FA and have been okay overall, but none are difference makers. Going to need several real difference makers here in the next couple of years.
OT hasn't been good so far. OBJ was a failed trade. I wouldn't count on Niang developing into much, but I hope I'm wrong. Kinnard is pretty raw and has a lot of room to grow.
Offensive skill position picks (or lack thereof) have been the worst. We've seen a steady decline in the offensive talent and several instances of clearly making the wrong pick over significantly better prospects. This has to change (maybe that started with Moore) or we might see a Rodgers/McCarthy situation start to develop.
It's clear that Veach has consistently gotten better each year in the draft, but there are certain positional deficiencies in the draft, trade, and FA acquisitions that need to improve. WR, RB, DE, DT, and OT all need a significant influx of talent.
I have to give KC credit in that they draft a WR pretty much every single year, and that's something you really have to do.
In terms of the overall Reid tenure, they got miles out of Conley, Robinson, Hill, and Hardman and mostly only missed on the late picks. Chesson missing as a non-contributor as a 4th hurt.
The part that sucks, and gets magnified, is that they really needed that 2020 1st to be Tee Higgins or Michael Pittman Jr and they didn't do it. The consensus was to draft a DE or draft a WR. Coincidentally, we ended up with huge holes in both positions as Veach instead went RB. It's probably his worst decision as a GM.
That being said, I'm not about to crucify the guy for a bad choice if he's hitting at a high rate. Veach seems to be getting better each year at hitting picks. Let's see how this all pans out. I'm betting he'll formulate a plan as this goes along, he always seems to. [Reply]
Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy:
I like Veach but I don't see how a GM who picked CEH in the 1st round and traded for Frank Clark can be considered the best GM in the league.
But he is young and he's definitely not a bad GM. So hopefully he just keeps improving.
Then who is the best GM in the league?
I guarantee you can't come up with a single name that doesn't have comparable/similar misses to go along with a SB ring and all the success he has had in his short time.
This is just a really stupid take. Everybody misses. [Reply]