Originally Posted by The Franchise:
Agree to disagree, I guess?
DT is definitely a need. Jones and Wharton are the only ones here next year and Jones has a $29M cap hit. He could just as easily be moved next offseason like Hill.
And I'm not arguing that WR isn't a need because it definitely is. I just don't think that spending multiple draft picks to move up for a WR with a torn ACL is the best use of what we have.
For this season DT isn't a need, thus any DT taken (unless it's a 1st round pick) will likely be a depth or rotational player. I'm not saying they shouldn't draft one for depth/future/rotation etc, i'm saying there isn't really a need for a starter this season.
Again, there's only so many starting spots available. Jones, Wharton, Nnadi, Stallworth is a fine group to start the season with. Surely they'll add another guy or two into that, but it's not a group that stands out as, "Oh we're fucked" if the season started tomorrow. [Reply]
The majority. Obviously there will be people here and there that disagree, but the majority of pundits have him as the top WR talent. Not the 1st off the board due to injury of course, but the top talent.
And if the Chiefs view him as such, then go get him.
A quick Google search shows that he is not "clearly" or a "consensus" #1 WR in the draft. Many people rank Garrett Wilson above him. And even London is ranked higher than Williams on several places I have seen.
I will defiantly agree that he is top 5 WR in the draft even go with top 3. Mahomes doesn't need the fastest WR in the NFL to be deadly... he needs some WRs that will catch the damn ball and not need perfect throws to do it.
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
For this season DT isn't a need, thus any DT taken (unless it's a 1st round pick) will likely be a depth or rotational player. I'm not saying they shouldn't draft one for depth/future/rotation etc, i'm saying there isn't really a need for a starter this season.
Again, there's only so many starting spots available. Jones, Wharton, Nnadi, Stallworth is a fine group to start the season with. Surely they'll add another guy or two into that, but it's not a group that stands out as, "Oh we're fucked" if the season started tomorrow.
You could draft Travis Jones in the 2nd and he would start over Nnadi.
Here is my main issue with the whole thing. A majority of Chiefs fans, either on here...or Twitter...or wherever are in this mindset that it's either WR in the first or the draft is an F and Veach has failed.
That's fucking stupid as shit. The idea that trading up into the 10-15 range at whatever cost to draft Jameson Williams is the only way this draft is a success is shortsighted and stupid.
Does that mean that it can't happen? No. Does that mean that I think Veach is an idiot if he does it? No. I'll always have the thought that we could have better utilized the resources that we had in other ways. But I'll understand why they did it.
The difference is that if it happens....I'll understand. If the Chiefs, however, choose to not take a WR in the first round....a majority of fans are going to lose their collective minds. They're in the WR in the 1st or bust category and that thinking is how you get Breeland Speaks on your team.
They don't understand that there might be 5-6 WRs slotted to go in the first round but 3 of those WRs might not fit your scheme. One might be off their board because of medicals or off the field shit. So if you only have 2 WRs as first round grades and they go well before you're up....it's not just reach on a WR that's next on your list because you need one. [Reply]
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
Sure. Just like they don't HAVE to trade up for a WR.
They don't. But if they do, i won't sit here and call it waste of draft capital either. I'm not going to sit here and vehemently argue against it like what's been happening around here these last two weeks.
Giving Mahomes blue chip weapons has never been, and never will be a bad strategy. Matter of fact, it's a strategy i fully embrace and I hope Veach sticks to his word, as it's what he said he'd do several seasons ago. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
They don't. But if they do, i won't sit here and call it waste of draft capital either. I'm not going to sit here and vehemently argue against it like what's been happening around here these last two weeks.
Giving Mahomes blue chip weapons has never been, and never will be a bad strategy. Matter of fact, it's a strategy i fully embrace and I hope Veach sticks to his word, as it's what he said he'd do several seasons ago.
If they do, I won't call it a waste of draft capital either.
You do realize the ONLY reason it's a discussion is because the draft isn't for 3 more weeks and there's not one other god damn thing to talk about right? [Reply]
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
They don't. But if they do, i won't sit here and call it waste of draft capital either. I'm not going to sit here and vehemently argue against it like what's been happening around here these last two weeks.
Giving Mahomes blue chip weapons has never been, and never will be a bad strategy. Matter of fact, it's a strategy i fully embrace and I hope Veach sticks to his word, as it's what he said he'd do several seasons ago.
I'm right there with you. I might not be happy with what they gave up but I also realized along time ago that the Chiefs don't give a fuck what I want when it comes to the draft. Right or wrong...my opinion holds no weight.
The only reason I'm bringing this up is because of the people screaming "give up whatever to trade up for Jameson Williams". He's not the only WR in the draft. [Reply]
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
I'm right there with you. I might not be happy with what they gave up but I also realized along time ago that the Chiefs don't give a fuck what I want when it comes to the draft. Right or wrong...my opinion holds no weight.
The only reason I'm bringing this up is because of the people screaming "give up whatever to trade up for Jameson Williams". He's not the only WR in the draft.
It entirely possible (for some of us, at least) to talk about good and bad ideas without getting into whether we like it or hate it.
I won't HATE anything they do. That still doesn't make whatever they do a good move. [Reply]
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
Here is my main issue with the whole thing. A majority of Chiefs fans, either on here...or Twitter...or wherever are in this mindset that it's either WR in the first or the draft is an F and Veach has failed.
That's fucking stupid as shit. The idea that trading up into the 10-15 range at whatever cost to draft Jameson Williams is the only way this draft is a success is shortsighted and stupid.
Does that mean that it can't happen? No. Does that mean that I think Veach is an idiot if he does it? No. I'll always have the thought that we could have better utilized the resources that we had in other ways. But I'll understand why they did it.
The difference is that if it happens....I'll understand. If the Chiefs, however, choose to not take a WR in the first round....a majority of fans are going to lose their collective minds. They're in the WR in the 1st or bust category and that thinking is how you get Breeland Speaks on your team.
They don't understand that there might be 5-6 WRs slotted to go in the first round but 3 of those WRs might not fit your scheme. One might be off their board because of medicals or off the field shit. So if you only have 2 WRs as first round grades and they go well before you're up....it's not just reach on a WR that's next on your list because you need one.
Oh for sure.
The draft is going break the way it breaks and the Chiefs will respond accordingly. As i said a day or two ago, you don't take a WR just to take one and i do not believe the Chiefs would do that anyway.
Seems like we're both arguing from opposite extremes here.
While your concern is regarding these hard line, "MUST" take a WR in the 1st guys, my argument is against all this silly talk about how drafting one in the 1st, or trading up is a waste of resources because Mahomes is some miracle man that will make shitty WR's good.
That's such a ridiculous line of thinking.
The Chiefs already put so much on Mahomes, and that won't ever change. He's the goddamn franchise QB.
It's seems silly to me to say, "well, we're going to put everything on Mahomes and give him LESS to work with" Dafuq?
If we're going to be a team built around Mahomes, (we are) then we should be throwing as many resources at him to help him be the best Mahomes he can be.
This whole, "we don't need to spend draft capital on a blue chip WR" is completely counter to what's made the Chiefs and Mahomes so successful all these years, and it's what's held GB and Rodgers back.
You're right, the Chiefs don't HAVE to draft a WR in the 1st. But if they do, and even if they have to trade up to do it, it's certainly not a waste. It's not something they should be looking to avoid just because we have Mahomes, like a WR is a goddamn 1st round RB or something.
It's not a waste of resources. It's building upon your strength. [Reply]
The draft is going break the way it breaks and the Chiefs will respond accordingly. As i said a day or two ago, you don't take a WR just to take one and i do not believe the Chiefs would do that anyway.
Seems like we're both arguing from opposite extremes here.
While your concern is regarding these hard line, "MUST" take a WR in the 1st guys, my argument is against all this silly talk about how drafting one in the 1st, or trading up is a waste of resources because Mahomes is some miracle man that will make shitty WR's good.
That's such a ridiculous line of thinking.
The Chiefs already put so much on Mahomes, and that won't ever change. He's the goddamn franchise QB.
It's seems silly to me to say, "well, we're going to put everything on Mahomes and give him LESS to work with" Dafuq?
If we're going to be a team built around Mahomes, (we are) then we should be throwing as many resources at him to help him be the best Mahomes he can be.
This whole, "we don't need to spend draft capital on a blue chip WR" is completely counter to what's made the Chiefs and Mahomes so successful all these years, and it's what's held GB and Rodgers back.
You're right, the Chiefs don't HAVE to draft a WR in the 1st. But if they do, and even if they have to trade up to do it, it's certainly not a waste. It's not something they should be looking to avoid just because we have Mahomes, like a WR is a goddamn 1st round RB or something.
It's not a waste of resources. It's building upon your strength.
Actually don't disagree with any of this really.
My argument against trading up is almost exclusively against Jameson Williams and it has nothing to do with whether or not we NEED to draft a WR. It's that there's a half dozen guys all jammed into the same group and people want to target a player out of that group that probably won't even play to start the season.
No matter how you slice it, that IS a waste of resources, at least in the immediate term.
That being said, it's also not going to piss me off. NOTHING they could do will piss me off. [Reply]
The draft is going break the way it breaks and the Chiefs will respond accordingly. As i said a day or two ago, you don't take a WR just to take one and i do not believe the Chiefs would do that anyway.
Seems like we're both arguing from opposite extremes here.
While your concern is regarding these hard line, "MUST" take a WR in the 1st guys, my argument is against all this silly talk about how drafting one in the 1st, or trading up is a waste of resources because Mahomes is some miracle man that will make shitty WR's good.
That's such a ridiculous line of thinking.
The Chiefs already put so much on Mahomes, and that won't ever change. He's the goddamn franchise QB.
It's seems silly to me to say, "well, we're going to put everything on Mahomes and give him LESS to work with" Dafuq?
If we're going to be a team built around Mahomes, (we are) then we should be throwing as many resources at him to help him be the best Mahomes he can be.
This whole, "we don't need to spend draft capital on a blue chip WR" is completely counter to what's made the Chiefs and Mahomes so successful all these years, and it's what's held GB and Rodgers back.
You're right, the Chiefs don't HAVE to draft a WR in the 1st. But if they do, and even if they have to trade up to do it, it's certainly not a waste. It's not something they should be looking to avoid just because we have Mahomes, like a WR is a goddamn 1st round RB or something.
It's not a waste of resources. It's building upon your strength.
I don't think the Chiefs are looking at Mahomes and telling him to go succeed with absolute shit at WR. I think they're changing directions away from this need to have a top 3 WR on the team. It's more of a..."we're going to surround you with a multitude of weapons" and then tailor fit the offensive scheme to that.
Hill and Kelce were awesome but when you have literal shit behind them...it becomes easy to figure out how to stop that offense. And teams did that last year. Now they've transitioned to Kelce and Juju in the short to intermediate areas, Hardman as the gadget and MVS as the deep threat.
Even if they draft a WR in the first round....they aren't getting some magical WR1 that is going to come in and hog targets. I'm assuming they have an idea of a WR that they can fit into a role for the first year and then expand that moving forward in their career. [Reply]