Originally Posted by Bwana:
Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.
Originally Posted by Dartgod:
People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.
We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.
Thanks!
Click here for the original OP:
Spoiler!
Apparently the CoronaVirus can survive on a inanimate objects, such as door knobs, for 9 days.
California coronavirus case could be first spread within U.S. community, CDC says
By SOUMYA KARLAMANGLA, JACLYN COSGROVE
FEB. 26, 2020 8:04 PM
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is investigating what could be the first case of novel coronavirus in the United States involving a patient in California who neither recently traveled out of the country nor was in contact with someone who did.
“At this time, the patient’s exposure is unknown. It’s possible this could be an instance of community spread of COVID-19, which would be the first time this has happened in the United States,” the CDC said in a statement. “Community spread means spread of an illness for which the source of infection is unknown. It’s also possible, however, that the patient may have been exposed to a returned traveler who was infected.”
The individual is a resident of Solano County and is receiving medical care in Sacramento County, according to the state Department of Public Health.
The CDC said the “case was detected through the U.S. public health system — picked up by astute clinicians.”
Officials at UC Davis Medical Center expanded on what the federal agency might have meant by that in an email sent Wednesday, as reported by the Davis Enterprise newspaper.
The patient arrived at UC Davis Medical Center from another hospital Feb. 19 and “had already been intubated, was on a ventilator, and given droplet protection orders because of an undiagnosed and suspected viral condition,” according to an email sent by UC Davis officials that was obtained by the Davis Enterprise.
The staff at UC Davis requested COVID-19 testing by the CDC, but because the patient didn’t fit the CDC’s existing criteria for the virus, a test wasn’t immediately administered, according to the email. The CDC then ordered the test Sunday, and results were announced Wednesday. Hospital administrators reportedly said in the email that despite these issues, there has been minimal exposure at the hospital because of safety protocols they have in place.
A UC Davis Health spokesperson declined Wednesday evening to share the email with The Times.
Since Feb. 2, more than 8,400 returning travelers from China have entered California, according to the state health department. They have been advised to self-quarantine for 14 days and limit interactions with others as much as possible, officials said.
“This is a new virus, and while we are still learning about it, there is a lot we already know,” Dr. Sonia Angell, director of the California Department of Public Health, said in a statement. “We have been anticipating the potential for such a case in the U.S., and given our close familial, social and business relationships with China, it is not unexpected that the first case in the U.S. would be in California.”
It is not clear how the person became infected, but public health workers could not identify any contacts with people who had traveled to China or other areas where the virus is widespread. That raises concern that the virus is spreading in the United States, creating a challenge for public health officials, experts say.
“It’s the first signal that we could be having silent transmission in the community,” said Lawrence Gostin, director of the World Health Organization Collaborating Center on National and Global Health Law. “It probably means there are many more cases out there, and it probably means this individual has infected others, and now it’s a race to try to find out who that person has infected.”
On Tuesday, the CDC offered its most serious warning to date that the United States should expect and prepare for the coronavirus to become a more widespread health issue.
“Ultimately, we expect we will see coronavirus spread in this country,” said Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. “It’s not so much a question of if, but a question of when.”
According to the CDC’s latest count Wednesday morning, 59 U.S. residents have tested positive for the new strain of coronavirus — 42 of whom are repatriated citizens from a Diamond Princess cruise. That number has grown by two since Messonnier’s last count Tuesday, although the CDC was not immediately available to offer details on the additional cases.
More than 82,000 cases of coronavirus have been reported globally, and more than 2,700 people have died, with the majority in mainland China, the epicenter of the outbreak.
But public health leaders have repeatedly reminded residents that the health risk from the novel coronavirus to the general public remains low.
“While COVID-19 has a high transmission rate, it has a low mortality rate,” the state Department of Public Health said in a statement Wednesday. “From the international data we have, of those who have tested positive for COVID-19, approximately 80% do not exhibit symptoms that would require hospitalization. There have been no confirmed deaths related to COVID-19 in the United States to date.”
CDC officials have also warned that although the virus is likely to spread in U.S. communities, the flu still poses a greater risk.
Gostin said the news of potential silent transmission does not eliminate the possibility of containing the virus in the U.S. and preventing an outbreak.
“There are few enough cases that we should at least try,” he said. “Most of us are not optimistic that that will be successful, but we’re still in the position to try.”
Originally Posted by O.city:
Ventilation is still needed and used in these cases depending on saturation and such.
I know one thing, I wouldn't want to end up in the care of a woman that was putting everyone on a ventilator!
You check in with her, you don't check out. Maybe she should be reading up on giving patients blood thinners, steroids, and not putting a tube down the throat of everyone she disagrees with. [Reply]
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
I know one thing, I wouldn't want to end up in the care of a woman that was putting everyone on a ventilator!
You check in with her, you don't check out. Maybe she should be reading up on giving patients blood thinners, steroids, and not putting a tube down the throat of everyone she disagrees with.
Mechanical ventilation is a last step option once everything has been exhausted.
I would venture to guess she's not ventilating patients she disagrees with. Ethically, thats job loss and litigation. [Reply]
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
I know one thing, I wouldn't want to end up in the care of a woman that was putting everyone on a ventilator!
You check in with her, you don't check out. Maybe she should be reading up on giving patients blood thinners, steroids, and not putting a tube down the throat of everyone she disagrees with.
It is very obvious you have zero medical experience. [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
She's fine. We had a hard time with it last year, ended up losing 5 family members to this thing and have a few others that were hospitalized but thankfully recovered.
It's tough, but life is tough sometimes.
Really sorry to hear about the family members. Glad the wife is good. I've lost my uncle and hopefully no one else I care about. He did everything right too to avoid it but still got him. I'm fortunate all my family members and friends have gotten vaccinated or will be as soon as it's available (overseas) and are taking precautions. Life is definitely tough sometimes. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Monticore:
It is very obvious you have zero medical experience.
I see you are more than a year behind on this.
Here you go:
With ventilators running out, doctors say the machines are overused for Covid-19
Sharon Begley
By Sharon Begley April 8, 2020
If the iconoclasts are right, putting coronavirus patients on ventilators could be of little benefit to many and even harmful to some.
What’s driving this reassessment is a baffling observation about Covid-19: Many patients have blood oxygen levels so low they should be dead. But they’re not gasping for air, their hearts aren’t racing, and their brains show no signs of blinking off from lack of oxygen.
That is making critical care physicians suspect that blood levels of oxygen, which for decades have driven decisions about breathing support for patients with pneumonia and acute respiratory distress, might be misleading them about how to care for those with Covid-19. In particular, more and more are concerned about the use of intubation and mechanical ventilators. They argue that more patients could receive simpler, noninvasive respiratory support, such as the breathing masks used in sleep apnea, at least to start with and maybe for the duration of the illness.
“I think we may indeed be able to support a subset of these patients” with less invasive breathing support, said Sohan Japa, an internal medicine physician at Boston’s Brigham and Women’s Hospital. “I think we have to be more nuanced about who we intubate.”
That would help relieve a shortage of ventilators so critical that states are scrambling to procure them and some hospitals are taking the unprecedented (and largely untested) step of using a single ventilator for more than one patient. And it would mean fewer Covid-19 patients, particularly elderly ones, would be at risk of suffering the long-term cognitive and physical effects of sedation and intubation while being on a ventilator.
None of this means that ventilators are not necessary in the Covid-19 crisis, or that hospitals are wrong to fear running out. But as doctors learn more about treating Covid-19, and question old dogma about blood oxygen and the need for ventilators, they might be able to substitute simpler and more widely available devices.
An oxygen saturation rate below 93% (normal is 95% to 100%) has long been taken as a sign of potential hypoxia and impending organ damage. Before Covid-19, when the oxygen level dropped below this threshold, physicians supported their patients’ breathing with noninvasive devices such as continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP, the sleep apnea device) and bilevel positive airway pressure ventilators (BiPAP). Both work via a tube into a face mask.
In severe pneumonia or acute respiratory distress unrelated to Covid-19, or if the noninvasive devices don’t boost oxygen levels enough, critical care doctors turn to mechanical ventilators that push oxygen into the lungs at a preset rate and force: A physician threads a 10-inch plastic tube down a patient’s throat and into the lungs, attaches it to the ventilator, and administers heavy and long-lasting sedation so the patient can’t fight the sensation of being unable to breathe on his own.
But because in some patients with Covid-19, blood-oxygen levels fall to hardly-ever-seen levels, into the 70s and even lower, physicians are intubating them sooner. “Data from China(Whoops!) suggested that early intubation would keep Covid-19 patients’ heart, liver, and kidneys from failing due to hypoxia,” said a veteran emergency medicine physician. “This has been the whole thing driving decisions about breathing support: Knock them out and put them on a ventilator.”
To be sure, many physicians are starting simple. “Most hospitals, including ours, are using simpler, noninvasive strategies first,” including the apnea devices and even nasal cannulas, said Greg Martin, a critical care physician at Emory University School of Medicine and president-elect of the Society of Critical Care Medicine. (Nasal cannulas are tubes whose two prongs, held beneath the nostrils by elastic, deliver air to the nose.) “It doesn’t require sedation and the patient [remains conscious and] can participate in his care. But if the oxygen saturation gets too low you can achieve more oxygen delivery with a mechanical ventilator.”
The question is whether ICU physicians are moving patients to mechanical ventilators too quickly. “Almost the entire decision tree is driven by oxygen saturation levels,” said the emergency medicine physician, who asked not to be named so as not to appear to be criticizing colleagues.
I'd guess, they've learned quite a bit in a year so yeah, If someone is requiring mechanical ventilation at this point, everything else has been exhausted. [Reply]
Originally Posted by suzzer99:
He's done his own research.
There is a reason that most medical programs have a large practical component and students pretty much get told to forget what they learned in school, the didactic part is mostly there to get your ready for your exams.
The fact that he is trying to simplify something that he doesn't full comprehend because he read about it also tells me that he isn't as smart as he thinks. [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
I'd guess, they've learned quite a bit in a year so yeah, If someone is requiring mechanical ventilation at this point, everything else has been exhausted.
With any new disease, doctors are flying blind in the beginning and they adapt. However, we have bad faith actors that seize upon those early actions to then say everything going forward is wrong because I guess people aren't allowed to learn and adapt.
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
I see you are more than a year behind on this.
Here you go:
With ventilators running out, doctors say the machines are overused for Covid-19
Sharon Begley
By Sharon Begley April 8, 2020
If the iconoclasts are right, putting coronavirus patients on ventilators could be of little benefit to many and even harmful to some.
What’s driving this reassessment is a baffling observation about Covid-19: Many patients have blood oxygen levels so low they should be dead. But they’re not gasping for air, their hearts aren’t racing, and their brains show no signs of blinking off from lack of oxygen.
That is making critical care physicians suspect that blood levels of oxygen, which for decades have driven decisions about breathing support for patients with pneumonia and acute respiratory distress, might be misleading them about how to care for those with Covid-19. In particular, more and more are concerned about the use of intubation and mechanical ventilators. They argue that more patients could receive simpler, noninvasive respiratory support, such as the breathing masks used in sleep apnea, at least to start with and maybe for the duration of the illness.
“I think we may indeed be able to support a subset of these patients” with less invasive breathing support, said Sohan Japa, an internal medicine physician at Boston’s Brigham and Women’s Hospital. “I think we have to be more nuanced about who we intubate.”
That would help relieve a shortage of ventilators so critical that states are scrambling to procure them and some hospitals are taking the unprecedented (and largely untested) step of using a single ventilator for more than one patient. And it would mean fewer Covid-19 patients, particularly elderly ones, would be at risk of suffering the long-term cognitive and physical effects of sedation and intubation while being on a ventilator.
None of this means that ventilators are not necessary in the Covid-19 crisis, or that hospitals are wrong to fear running out. But as doctors learn more about treating Covid-19, and question old dogma about blood oxygen and the need for ventilators, they might be able to substitute simpler and more widely available devices.
An oxygen saturation rate below 93% (normal is 95% to 100%) has long been taken as a sign of potential hypoxia and impending organ damage. Before Covid-19, when the oxygen level dropped below this threshold, physicians supported their patients’ breathing with noninvasive devices such as continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP, the sleep apnea device) and bilevel positive airway pressure ventilators (BiPAP). Both work via a tube into a face mask.
In severe pneumonia or acute respiratory distress unrelated to Covid-19, or if the noninvasive devices don’t boost oxygen levels enough, critical care doctors turn to mechanical ventilators that push oxygen into the lungs at a preset rate and force: A physician threads a 10-inch plastic tube down a patient’s throat and into the lungs, attaches it to the ventilator, and administers heavy and long-lasting sedation so the patient can’t fight the sensation of being unable to breathe on his own.
But because in some patients with Covid-19, blood-oxygen levels fall to hardly-ever-seen levels, into the 70s and even lower, physicians are intubating them sooner. “Data from China(Whoops!) suggested that early intubation would keep Covid-19 patients’ heart, liver, and kidneys from failing due to hypoxia,” said a veteran emergency medicine physician. “This has been the whole thing driving decisions about breathing support: Knock them out and put them on a ventilator.”
To be sure, many physicians are starting simple. “Most hospitals, including ours, are using simpler, noninvasive strategies first,” including the apnea devices and even nasal cannulas, said Greg Martin, a critical care physician at Emory University School of Medicine and president-elect of the Society of Critical Care Medicine. (Nasal cannulas are tubes whose two prongs, held beneath the nostrils by elastic, deliver air to the nose.) “It doesn’t require sedation and the patient [remains conscious and] can participate in his care. But if the oxygen saturation gets too low you can achieve more oxygen delivery with a mechanical ventilator.”
The question is whether ICU physicians are moving patients to mechanical ventilators too quickly. “Almost the entire decision tree is driven by oxygen saturation levels,” said the emergency medicine physician, who asked not to be named so as not to appear to be criticizing colleagues.
I understand they have tried using a more conservative approach for well over a year but that doesn't mean people still don't end up needing it or ECMO . [Reply]
Originally Posted by TLO:
I say we make vaccines mandatory. If you don't comply, you will be forced to look at Hope Solo's nudes 4 hours every day until Covid is gone.
I suddenly crave steakums for some weird reason.
Once the FDA fully approves the vaccines, you will see a lot more vaccine mandates drop in place very quickly and I am all for it. I am sure the "mUh FReeDUmms" crowd will be loud as hell but oh well. They are free to be stupid and not get the vaccine and at the same time they are free to keep their asses at home and away from civilized society.
Originally Posted by Monticore:
I understand they have tried using a more conservative approach for well over a year but that doesn't mean people still don't end up needing it or ECMO .
Everyone needing a ventilator and doing a Covid deathbed confession is an old marketing template.
Just saying besides dropping the Covid Parties they could drop that part too.
As a marketing guy, not a doctor, that's my advice to sell this kind of stuff moving forward... [Reply]