Originally Posted by comochiefsfan:
Ballard has built a hell of a foundation in Indy.
He's going to have to make a move for a QB soon, but he's 100% better than Veach.
The truth is that I believe Hunt and Reid didn't want either Dorsey or Ballard here. Those guys are too competent at their jobs and wouldn't have tolerated being 100% deferential to anything that Andy wants which Veach is.
Andy got his feelings hurt when Dorsey cut Maclin without asking his permission.
Hunt got pissed when Dorsey pushed back on signing Berry to a big contract.
Those two decided they wanted complete and unquestioned control and so they pushed out the two competent GMs on the roster and installed a Yes Man stooge in Veach who they could tell to do whatever they wanted.
They played up the fact that Veach was the scout on Mahomes in order to trick the fans into thinking he was some sort of savant young GM and have since been content to let him Piledrive this roster into the ground, as long as he doesn't question their authority.
Reid is a great coach, but he also has a huge ego and Hunt is infatuated with Andy.
Because of that, we kicked two of the best talent evaluators in the league out the door and installed a dud. Great organizations check their egos at the door and are able to work together in order to achieve something greater than themselves.
Reid and Hunt couldn't do that and that's what is ultimately going to doom this potential dynasty.
Originally Posted by staylor26:
So, Ballard is better than Veach because of his first draft, which he had a top 10 pick to work with?
Because there’s no way you’re going to tell me that guys like Michael Pittman, Bobby Okereke, Julian Blackmon are that much better than guys like Sneed, Bolton, Humphrey, Gay, Smith, Niang etc.
Yes, he’s had some solid picks since that draft, but it’s not remarkably better than what Veach has done through the draft at the same time. That’s with a huge difference in draft capital too.
Like I said - this year's draft can really close things up in that regard. I really didn't understand what the Colts were trying to do with this draft and have said on multiple occasions that I loved the Chiefs draft this season.
But you've got some recency bias happening here. That first draft continues to count, does it not? It seems folly to write it off, especially for the "Veach is why we have Mahomes" crowd.
But would I trade our '19 and '20 drafts for the Colts '19 and '20 drafts? Yeah, I would. [Reply]
Originally Posted by comochiefsfan:
Ballard has built a hell of a foundation in Indy.
He's going to have to make a move for a QB soon, but he's 100% better than Veach.
The truth is that I believe Hunt and Reid didn't want either Dorsey or Ballard here. Those guys are too competent at their jobs and wouldn't have tolerated being 100% deferential to anything that Andy wants which Veach is.
Andy got his feelings hurt when Dorsey cut Maclin without asking his permission.
Hunt got pissed when Dorsey pushed back on signing Berry to a big contract.
Those two decided they wanted complete and unquestioned control and so they pushed out the two competent GMs on the roster and installed a Yes Man stooge in Veach who they could tell to do whatever they wanted.
They played up the fact that Veach was the scout on Mahomes in order to trick the fans into thinking he was some sort of savant young GM and have since been content to let him Piledrive this roster into the ground, as long as he doesn't question their authority.
Reid is a great coach, but he also has a huge ego and Hunt is infatuated with Andy.
Because of that, we kicked two of the best talent evaluators in the league out the door and installed a dud. Great organizations check their egos at the door and are able to work together in order to achieve something greater than themselves.
Reid and Hunt couldn't do that and that's what is ultimately going to doom this potential dynasty.
If I'm Hunt, I'm begging Dorsey to come back. It's not too late if we act after this season. But if we wait too long then Mahomes' prime is going to pass by with only one ring and we're going to be left wondering what if.
:-) I do love your invented narrative that Dorsey didn't want to sign Berry at all. He tried to sign him to a long term deal in 2016, contingent on Berry paying for an insurance policy that named the Chiefs as the benefactors. That's what pissed Berry off to the point that Hunt had to step in during the negotiations in 2017. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Like I said - this year's draft can really close things up in that regard. I really didn't understand what the Colts were trying to do with this draft.
But you've got some recency bias happening here. That first draft continues to count, does it not? It seems folly to write it off, especially for the "Veach is why we have Mahomes" crowd.
But would I trade our '19 and '20 drafts for the Colts '19 and '20 drafts? Yeah, I would.
The first draft he had a top 10 pick to work with. That’s a huge difference compared to the draft capital that Veach has had in any of his drafts. Sure, it counts, but it’s also an apples to orange comparison.
And I love how even with a huge hit like Creed, it gets knocked down a notch for positional value, but nothing gets mentioned about Ballard having to spend a top 10 pick to get an All-Pro G, which was easily his best picked player. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Like I said - this year's draft can really close things up in that regard. I really didn't understand what the Colts were trying to do with this draft and have said on multiple occasions that I loved the Chiefs draft this season.
But you've got some recency bias happening here. That first draft continues to count, does it not? It seems folly to write it off, especially for the "Veach is why we have Mahomes" crowd.
But would I trade our '19 and '20 drafts for the Colts '19 and '20 drafts? Yeah, I would.
Didn't he draft Nelson, a guard, #6 overall? I swear I have heard on here that you never do that. Or does this not count because Nelson is good? We are freaking out because we took CEH #32 overall because you don't take a RB there, but Ballard is a genius because he took a guard #6 (even if he is an All Pro). Seems like a strange standard to apply. [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
The first draft he had a top 10 pick to work with. That’s a huge difference compared to the draft capital that Veach has had in any of his drafts. Sure, it counts, but it’s also an apples to orange comparison.
And I love how even with a huge hit like Creed, it gets knocked down a notch for positional value, but nothing gets mentioned about Ballard having to spend a top 10 pick to get an All-Pro G, which was easily his best picked player.
Darius Leonard was his best pick in that draft and was a MASSIVE feather in his cap. It was a Chris Jones caliber pick.
And who knocked Creed down a notch? I said it's hard for a C to be a cornerstone player. Look at the market for Cs vs. Gs - guards are clearly more highly valued in the league. I couldn't explain to you why, but the market makes it clear that teams see Gs as more important players.
And even at that, Nelson had a hell of a tough road to being a real franchise type player at G. He managed it because he made the All Pro team his first 3 years in the league. He hasn't just been good, he's been exceptional.
I don't know how many guys have EVER done that, but it can't be more than a dozen. Maybe Zack Martin or Patrick Willis in recent history? Nelson has been a HoF caliber player from the moment he took the field. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Darius Leonard was his best pick in that draft and was a MASSIVE feather in his cap. It was a Chris Jones caliber pick.
And who knocked Creed down a notch? I said it's hard for a C to be a cornerstone player. Look at the market for Cs vs. Gs - guards are clearly more highly valued in the league. I couldn't explain to you why, but the market makes it clear that teams see Gs as more important players.
And even at that, Nelson had a hell of a tough road to being a real franchise type player at G. He managed it because he made the All Pro team his first 3 years in the league. He hasn't just been good, he's been exceptional.
I don't know how many guys have EVER done that, but it can't be more than a dozen. Maybe Zack Martin or Patrick Willis in recent history? Nelson has been a HoF caliber player from the moment he took the field.
Nelson, IMO, was like Berry for us. It was a no brainer pick. He gets credit for taking him but I don’t view it as some genius move. Indy needed offensive line help and he had one of the best OGs available to him. [Reply]
Originally Posted by tredadda:
Didn't he draft Nelson, a guard, #6 overall? I swear I have heard on here that you never do that. Or does this not count because Nelson is good? We are freaking out because we took CEH #32 overall because you don't take a RB there, but Ballard is a genius because he took a guard #6 (even if he is an All Pro). Seems like a strange standard to apply.
I mean I won't speak to anyone else's position.
I can go all the way back to my position regarding David DeCastro way back when that was a thing. If a guy like Chris Jones or Aaron Donald is capable of being a difference maker, then drafting a player that can neutralize a guy like that is equally impactful.
Now I will say that if you're taking a less impactful position that high, you'd better by god be right. If you're taking Tyson Jackson at #3, he'd better be a JJ Watt sort of 3-tech. If you're taking a G in the top 10, he'd better be an All-Pro. If he's merely a good player at a secondary position, you've busted that pick.
Chris Ballard got it right - Nelson is a stud. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Darius Leonard was his best pick in that draft and was a MASSIVE feather in his cap. It was a Chris Jones caliber pick.
And who knocked Creed down a notch? I said it's hard for a C to be a cornerstone player. Look at the market for Cs vs. Gs - guards are clearly more highly valued in the league. I couldn't explain to you why, but the market makes it clear that teams see Gs as more important players.
And even at that, Nelson had a hell of a tough road to being a real franchise type player at G. He managed it because he made the All Pro team his first 3 years in the league. He hasn't just been good, he's been exceptional.
I don't know how many guys have EVER done that, but it can't be more than a dozen. Maybe Zack Martin or Patrick Willis in recent history? Nelson has been a HoF caliber player from the moment he took the field.
Trey Smith, 6th round pick.
Yea, he isn’t quite Nelson off the bat, but if we’re going to blow Ballard for the Nelson pick, then Veach deserves that plus a finger in the butt. [Reply]
Can't excuse Ballard for what he's done at QB. Overpaying Brissett and Rivers was one thing, but trading a potential first rounder you could've used for a QB to lock yourself to Wentz at his guaranteed $ was an absolutely horrendous move that has the potential to set that team back for a long, long time. [Reply]
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
Nelson, IMO, was like Berry for us. It was a no brainer pick. He gets credit for taking him but I don’t view it as some genius move. Indy needed offensive line help and he had one of the best OGs available to him.
And that '18 draft speaks to what a catastrophe the Luck thing was for Ballard.
Let's say he goes out there and Luck simply didn't exist. He'd retired after his first injury. Does he take the chance on Josh Allen? Thinking you have a QB only to have him vanish on you does far more damage than never having one at all.
The '18 draft class has become really damn good. Now that Darnold is away from the Jets, he's looking like a quality QB and he's the 4th best quarterback out of that class. There were elite Gs, LBs (a TON of excellent LBs, in fact), WRs, DEs, DTs....just an insanely good draft class.
And Veach air-balled the whole damn thing... [Reply]
