DHop said he wants to play with Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, Herbert or Hurts.
Ravens already paid a ton of money to OBJ, drafted Flowers with their first rounder and have another former 1st rounder in Bateman
Chargers have Mike Williams, Keenan Allen and first rounder Q Johnston.
Eagles have AJ Brown and Devonta Smith.
Are any of those teams really going to pony up north of $15M for DHop?
It will be Chiefs or Bills IMO. If I remember correctly the Bills 2024 cap is already wrecked. We will see if Buf wants to offer DHop an incentive laden contract which would hurt their 2024 cap even more. [Reply]
Originally Posted by oldman:
I didn't imply anything about Kelce or his age. There's a lot of football left there. My point is that having a 32 year old WR on the team for a year isn't going to do anything to develop our existing WR corps. We're already having discussions on which of the 12 on the roster today to cut. This isn't a damn the toraudioes, all in this year because it's our only chance to win a SB. This is a dynasty in the making and the only way to keep it rolling is to draft/trade for young players and develop them. There's only so much money and you can bet your bottom dollar Hopkins will be asking for a large chunk of that next year.
Why is a 31 year-old WR, that necessarily takes fewer hits, and has to play a less physical style of play more of a liability than a 34 year-old TE, that has to play a much more physical game? That just doesn't make any sense to me.
And our WRs going into the season are likely
(Hopkins)
Toney
Moore
MVS
Rice
Do we really care how many balls the rest of the WR room catches?
And Hopkins isn't a volume WR. he doesn't need 150 targets to be productive. He's literally one of the few WRs in history to see over 100 targets and catch every single ball in a season. he's incredibly efficient; if you have a QB that can actually put the ball somewhere he can get a hand on it.
In this offense, he needs between 80-100 targets. With Pat throwing to him, he'll catch 70-85 balls for over 1,200 yds/8-10 TDs. Btw, if he does anything like that, then even Travis doesn't need 150 targets. More like 120-130.
Quid pro quo: Plenty of balls for Toney/Moore/Rice. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BigRedChief:
Darren Smith on Twitter
People seem to forget when the #Chiefs had like $2.73 to their name in the form of cap space in 2019 yet somehow found a way to sign Patrick Mahomes to a ten-year, $450 million dollar contract extension. If Veach and the Chiefs (ie, Mahomes) want D-Hop, they can make it happen.
Originally Posted by FlaChief58:
Bart has already proven that he can make shit happen with pocket change and a lint covered Werther's original. If both sides are serious, he'll make it happen
Originally Posted by kcgreene:
This, in a way, is why it makes sense. How much will he be worth the following years? One way for him to make that number higher and cash in on one last contract is to have an elite season here on a one year deal. How much would he be worth the following years? A lot more if he puts up great numbers with Pat and Andy.
Obviously his value is hurting right now for some reason. Perhaps there's a deeper issue that we don't know (This would explain why he only went for apparent pennies from the Texans to the Cards too) but if he wants to regain some of that value, how he would do it would be a 1 year deal.
He'd be the best WR of the 13 we'd have if he were here.
Biggest issue for Dhop is whether someone gives him a multi year deal for stupid money or he wants to win a ring. I suspect the Chiefs won’t offer enough (absent Mahomes insistence). They will likely take the same kind of $3mm-$5mm with another $8mm-$10mm in incentives sort of deal that Juju took, but if he wants to go to the highest bidder — even if it’s just the highest bidder among the handful of teams he’s expressed an interest playing for — then he won’t be in KC.
I think KC believes they’re in good shape with the current cast as well — making a pursuit of Hopkins even less likely. [Reply]
Originally Posted by TwistedChief:
I don’t think you have a very keen context for what NFL WRs get paid.
Go look at the production of Allen Lazard (11mm), Russel Gage (8.5mm), and Adam Thielen (8.3mm), and tell me that MVS’s playing in a completely new system in year 1 with those stats is somehow a dramatic overpay.
He played the role we had hoped he would as a deep threat. In the postseason he played the role of WR1 when he was called upon. Not sure what you expected from a vet making 9mm/yr but his production is in line.
I don't know that teams bereft of talent and who had a losing record (Panthers and Jets) having to overpay to bring talent / names (Thielen) are in the same position we find ourselves in.
Gage's cap hit in 2023 is $7m to MVS's $9m. Gage also had 51 receptions on 70 targets for 5 TDs. MVS had 42 receptions on 81 targets with 2TD last season.
Coming into their respective contracts... MVS put up 430 yards on 26 receptions off 55 with 3 TDs targets while Gage put up 770 yards on 66 receptions off 94 targets and 4TDs.
With Gage coming up on a $16m payday next season due to the way that 3-30 contract was written up... I would be shocked if he is still with the Bucs next season.
Originally Posted by ForeverIowan:
DHop said he wants to play with Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, Herbert or Hurts.
Ravens already paid a ton of money to OBJ, drafted Flowers with their first rounder and have another former 1st rounder in Bateman
Chargers have Mike Williams, Keenan Allen and first rounder Q Johnston.
Eagles have AJ Brown and Devonta Smith.
Are any of those teams really going to pony up north of $15M for DHop?
It will be Chiefs or Bills IMO. If I remember correctly the Bills 2024 cap is already wrecked. We will see if Buf wants to offer DHop an incentive laden contract which would hurt their 2024 cap even more.
Buffalo is going to have a hard time making it work. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Mephistopheles Janx:
I get it... he had a great playoff game. Here is a stat for you.
Dude was 7th on drops with only 1 less than Kelce. Kelce was targeted 152 times. MVS 81.
That is just the ones he "dropped" and not including the ones he gave up on.
He is vastly overpaid for his production.
Who's numbers are you using, because that's not what I have (Pro Football Reference)
MVS had 5 drops (6.2% Drop Rate). Kelce had 8 (5.3% Drop Rate). Not saying he doesn't drop the ball, but just wanting to have honest information.
I don't think MVS is as negative as you make him out to be, as he showed in the AFC Championship game that he can fill the other facets of this offense if he has to, plus he very much fulfills his role. If he didn't have some concerns in dropping the ball and had an extra step in his lateral movement, he'd be a lot better player (but he'd also cost an additional 6 to 10M AAV)
Plus, it's important to remember that he was literally our 2nd option at receiver last year (so realistically 3rd behind Kelce) and got 687 yards.
Lets look at some beautiful data:
He was 55th in yards amongst all pass catchers (46th amongst Wide Receivers only), making him an average WR2 in the grand scheme of things, in an offense where realistically he is the 3rd option (if we go off of qualified players in Receiving Yds per game he fares a bit worse at 68th, or the 55th Wide Receiver making him an average WR2 option or a top 3rd pass catcher)
So lets run with his worse set of numbers, looking at guys around him in terms of production output last year (In terms of Yards per game), we see veteran receivers like Corey Davis (62nd), Mack Hollins (66th), Curtis Samuel (71st). If we include other pass catchers we also add Zach Ertz (67th), Dalton Schultz (72nd) and Tyler Higbee (76th)
Lets look at salaries...
Corey Davis 12.5M AAV
Mack Hollins Vet Minimum, had no other season historically over 223 yards
Curtis Samuel 11.5M AAV
Zach Ertz 10.5M AAV, Tight End signed 2022 (Same year as MVS)
Dalton Schultz Rookie Deal, was playing on 5th year Option @ 10.9M, Tight End
Tyler Higbee 7.25M AAV, Tight End signed 2019
MVS 10M AAV.
For comparative production from a WR, MVS actually cost comparatively than the veteran receivers around his production. Not a great deal by any means, but not the albatross that you're making it out to be. In fact, one could claim compared to those counterparts on that list and the fact their contracts were written before the Christian Kirk contract and before MVS contract, one could claim that his contract is cheaper than it should be.
I'm not going to argue that, but it's not an albatross and he's not awful like you're attempting to make him out to be. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Couch-Potato:
I think he's given plenty of signals that he wants to play here with Pat.
Hoping we can make it happen!
Tons of players would love to play here but won’t take a discount to do it. Here’s hoping he is willing though. He is a FA so he no longer has to concern himself with who Arizona could trade him to. [Reply]