So there's an article on NFL network saying that Orlando Brown is expected to sign for 6 years $145 mil.
That comes to $24.16 mil/yr and makes him the highest paid offensive lineman in football. It also would give him the 19th highest salary per year in the NFL
How would you feel if that is the contract he ended up signing?
I'm fine with it. He is a top 5 LT and he's only 26 next season. A young great LT is a guy you can't let leave. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I think they would be making a calculated long-term decision based on the ages/positions of the respective players AND the marginal returns on their replacements.
Building an offense around a replacement for Tyreek Hill is, as we have seen, eminently doable.
It might be a heck of a lot more difficult to do that at LT. May not be, but that certainly appears to be the impetus behind the decision. And fellas - it's possible they're just right. It might even be likely that they are.
Far be it for me to color my view on the NEXT decision they make based on the previous big decision...especially when that decision appears to have been a pretty good one.
Positional value and importance.
There just aren't many guys walking around that can do what they ask one player to do at LT.
There aren't any Tyreek Hills walking around, but having a force multiplier at QB and HC and having talent at WR, seems like you can cobble that together fine.
Add in the age and I would imagine it's not hard to come to the conclusion it appears they have here. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I think they would be making a calculated long-term decision based on the ages/positions of the respective players AND the marginal returns on their replacements.
Building an offense around a replacement for Tyreek Hill is, as we have seen, eminently doable.
It might be a heck of a lot more difficult to do that at LT. May not be, but that certainly appears to be the impetus behind the decision. And fellas - it's possible they're just right. It might even be likely that they are.
Far be it for me to color my view on the NEXT decision they make based on the previous big decision...especially when that decision appears to have been a pretty good one.
I definitely think a strong OL is more important. I think Mahomes himself would view it this way too. [Reply]
I've already spoken to all of this (I think; you're meandering a bit).
Plan A: Sign him to a LTC.
Plan B: If he insists on nothing but guaranteed dollars and an AAV that re-sets the tackle market, he's tied your hands and the Chiefs can't do that so you work the phones to check on the feasibility of a tag/trade. Now part of this also requires that you simply move on mentally from OBJ and draft/pursue his replacement.
Plan C: The tag/trade falls through - you rescind the tag, let him walk in FA and have already drafted/signed his replacement with the tag money that comes loose when the tag is rescinded.
As for willing partners - again, I've spoken to that as well. Not every team (in fact, very few of them) are in the same position the Chiefs are in re: their cap structure in the near and long terms do to their existing and future obligations to good/great players that they'll want to keep around. Many teams out there can throw 'Sammy Watkins' deals at luxury items where they're obviously overpriced but STILL within that teams salary structure.
Aah, I see the disconnect here. You're operating under the assumption that this MAY happen. I'm operating under the assumption that it WILL considering he still hasn't fired the doofus that didn't get to the negotiating table until well past the 11th hour and hired an agent with legitimate experience that knows LTs aren't QBs and they aren't ever getting fully guaranteed money without significant sacrifice on the players end. [Reply]
Y'all wanna know how many rookie Ts have been better than Orlando Brown Jr this year? Maybe - MAYBE - one. Braxton Jones. And Jones isn't a great pass protector despite an offense that makes pass protection quite a bit easier than KC's does (not unlike Baltimore's did).
Lucas has been pretty good at a low cost - but not better than Brown. Likewise with Cross. Tyler Smith has been bad. Ekwonu has been bad. Evan Neal has been one of the worst Ts in all of football and he was a top 10 selection and pretty widely regarded as a damn good pick/prospect there.
3 OTs taken in the top 10 this year and nary a one of them has been better than OBJ. And the FA market is a steaming pile of shit. And the Packers aren't letting Nijman get away - he's getting a 2nd round tender at least - he might get a 1st round tender and even THEN they might just match the damn thing.
Y'all that are just acting like we can run on down to the Tackle store and find an above average LT are simply ignoring the lack of availability of the position.
A tag and trade is my backup option for a reason - it's NOT going to make this team better next year and likely won't for the next couple. And those are hugely important years given that the clock is ticking on Elite Kelce and the prime years of Chris Jones. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Superturtle:
Aah, I see the disconnect here. You're operating under the assumption that this MAY happen. I'm operating under the assumption that it WILL considering he still hasn't fired the doofus that didn't get to the negotiating table until well past the 11th hour and hired an agent with legitimate experience that knows LTs aren't QBs and they aren't ever getting fully guaranteed money without significant sacrifice on the players end.
I think that stance is being overstated.
My recollection is that the Chiefs pulled the chute on what was effectively a 2 year deal and that Brown was wanting 3 in effective guarantees and 4 in probable years.
I don't think either side was as extreme in their positions as is being portrayed nor do I think they were THAT far apart. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I think that stance is being overstated.
My recollection is that the Chiefs pulled the chute on what was effectively a 2 year deal and that Brown was wanting 3 in effective guarantees and 4 in probable years.
I don't think either side was as extreme in their positions as is being portrayed nor do I think they were THAT far apart.
Eh, them taking some not so subtle jabs and swipes at each other publicly after the fact makes me think that yes, in fact, they were pretty far apart. [Reply]
We all need to realize the Chiefs are going to sign him to a long term contract. I just want it to be a team friendly deal & easily gotten out of if need be. LT’s do not grow on trees. [Reply]
Here's what we absolutely do know about the value of OBj and that is he isn't worth what the Texans gave up for Tunsil.
Teams had every opportunity last season to trade two 1sts and sign OBj to an extension.
The Texans gave Miami two 1sts, a 2nd, a CB and a RT for Tunsil, a WR, and a 4th.
I would venture to guess that putting him on the tag again will yield no takers at that value.
If that's the case, then I think it's relatively fair to assume that the league does not value OBj at top of market value or, in other words, not in the same way Tunsil was valued or the way OBj values himself.
So, if OBj does want to play hardball come spring, I think you can put that tag on him and he and his agent better get to work figuring it all out from there.
If a team ain't willing to pony up two 1's, they are going to have to pony up whatever KC is comfortable with, and I'd have to assume discussions would start with a top-15 pick. It's in OBj's court on whether or not he wants to hold out and not sign the tag, but that just gives KC leverage to tag him again the following year.
OBj doesn't have all the leverage. In fact, he has little of it. [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
Positional value and importance.
There just aren't many guys walking around that can do what they ask one player to do at LT.
There aren't any Tyreek Hills walking around, but having a force multiplier at QB and HC and having talent at WR, seems like you can cobble that together fine.
Add in the age and I would imagine it's not hard to come to the conclusion it appears they have here.
Originally Posted by DRM08:
I definitely think a strong OL is more important. I think Mahomes himself would view it this way too.
We really can be all over the road 'round here.
After the Chiefs get waxed in the SB it's "Damn everything else - keep Mahomes upright and we'll be fine!!!"
Hell, that was the attitude after the Hill trade - "Hey, we had a great OL last year; just get Mahomes some decent options and he can make a great offense..."
Now it's "Ah, fuck it - trade OBJ for a 2nd and figure LT out later..."
To what purpose? Just seems like we GOT what many of us wanted - a really sturdy offensive line. And now because OBJ isn't Willie Roaf, we have people willing to pay him $18 million but not $24 million as though the $6 million difference that gets us...what...a half a FA safety is going to be more important to the team than the downgrade from OBJ to some complete WC at OT who, history shows, could be the worst damn LT in football even if taken in the top 10. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Y'all wanna know how many rookie Ts have been better than Orlando Brown Jr this year? Maybe - MAYBE - one. Braxton Jones. And Jones isn't a great pass protector despite an offense that makes pass protection quite a bit easier than KC's does (not unlike Baltimore's did).
Lucas has been pretty good at a low cost - but not better than Brown. Likewise with Cross. Tyler Smith has been bad. Ekwonu has been bad. Evan Neal has been one of the worst Ts in all of football and he was a top 10 selection and pretty widely regarded as a damn good pick/prospect there.
3 OTs taken in the top 10 this year and nary a one of them has been better than OBJ. And the FA market is a steaming pile of shit. And the Packers aren't letting Nijman get away - he's getting a 2nd round tender at least - he might get a 1st round tender and even THEN they might just match the damn thing.
Y'all that are just acting like we can run on down to the Tackle store and find an above average LT are simply ignoring the lack of availability of the position.
A tag and trade is my backup option for a reason - it's NOT going to make this team better next year and likely won't for the next couple. And those are hugely important years given that the clock is ticking on Elite Kelce and the prime years of Chris Jones.
Exactly this. Great post. I am at least a little intrigued about a theoretical tag and trade for Evan Neal now, though. I mean, he's got to be better than that, right?!? [Reply]
Originally Posted by kccrow:
Here's what we absolutely do know about the value of OBj and that is he isn't worth what the Texans gave up for Tunsil.
Teams had every opportunity last season to trade two 1sts and sign OBj to an extension.
The Texans gave Miami two 1sts, a 2nd, a CB and a RT for Tunsil, a WR, and a 4th.
I would venture to guess that putting him on the tag again will yield no takers at that value.
If that's the case, then I think it's relatively fair to assume that the league does not value OBj at top of market value or, in other words, not in the same way Tunsil was valued or the way OBj values himself.
So, if OBj does want to play hardball come spring, I think you can put that tag on him and he and his agent better get to work figuring it all out from there.
If a team ain't willing to pony up two 1's, they are going to have to pony up whatever KC is comfortable with, and I'd have to assume discussions would start with a top-15 pick. It's in OBj's court on whether or not he wants to hold out and not sign the tag, but that just gives KC leverage to tag him again the following year.
OBj doesn't have all the leverage. In fact, he has little of it.
Teams learned from the Tunsil debacle, at least as it related to the draft compensation.
The market then ain't the market now. Hell, other teams learned from the Frank Clark situation.
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I think that stance is being overstated.
My recollection is that the Chiefs pulled the chute on what was effectively a 2 year deal and that Brown was wanting 3 in effective guarantees and 4 in probable years.
I don't think either side was as extreme in their positions as is being portrayed nor do I think they were THAT far apart.
I think KC should offer him a really strong guaranteed number in exchange for a reasonable average salary instead of absolute top dollar salary. Something like 6 years for $126M ($21M per year) with $100M fully guaranteed...
If he is demanding top dollar salary no matter what, he probably needs to leave. [Reply]