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View Poll Results: Pay Orlando Brown Jr a 6 yr $145 mil contract
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Nzoner's Game Room>Orlando Brown Projected Contract 6 year $145 mil
dlphg9 08:17 PM 03-28-2022
So there's an article on NFL network saying that Orlando Brown is expected to sign for 6 years $145 mil.

That comes to $24.16 mil/yr and makes him the highest paid offensive lineman in football. It also would give him the 19th highest salary per year in the NFL

How would you feel if that is the contract he ended up signing?

I'm fine with it. He is a top 5 LT and he's only 26 next season. A young great LT is a guy you can't let leave.
[Reply]
Sassy Squatch 03:38 PM 11-30-2022
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Are we?

Saying he's showing a pattern of improvement that demonstrates the ability to play at an upper echelon level isn't closing the book on anything.

Y'all are the ones that made up your minds some time ago here...
It's not a pattern of improvement though. It's a pattern of him returning to the player he consistently was last year.
[Reply]
duncan_idaho 03:39 PM 11-30-2022
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Season ain't over yet - I've already said that he's simply kept the door open for the discussion through his improvement in play over the last several weeks.

I don't think you can make a decision yet.

But if he plays for the remainder of the year at the same level he's played the last 3-5 weeks? Yeah - I think you go ahead and bite the bullet. Structure matters, etc...

But this is a young player who's demonstrated improvement in key areas that the team has specifically requested he address. He's demonstrating more familiarity in the offense. He's looking better as the season has gone on and by a fair amount.

Moreover, he's been historically extremely durable and OL tend to hit their effective prime years in their late 20s/early 30s. He's not even as good as he'll ever be.

So ultimately I think the hope should be that he continues to play this well and gets the LTC here. And if not, at least improves his value to the point that a tag/trade becomes a reasonable option.
This, all of this.

If Brown continues to play like this, it shows he is still durable and still a top 10 overall LT in the NFL.

And that's one of those positions where, when you sign your guys long-term, you're probably awarding top of the market AAV. Like you said, the structure matters.

If Brown and his agent insist on every dollar being fully guaranteed, that doesn't work. But there is a middle ground where he gets a nice guarantee, and a deal that is highest AAV (until Laremy Tunsil signs his next deal), and the structure works with what the Chiefs need to do.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 03:43 PM 11-30-2022
Originally Posted by Superturtle:
It's not a pattern of improvement though. It's a pattern of him returning to the player he consistently was last year.
So he will have shown a 2 year pattern of performance whereby he played as a top 10ish LT in football for a team that doesn't make it terribly easy on its LTs.

At 25 and 26 years old.

And you think that's NOT going to get him paid at/near the top of the T range?

Again - y'all have to stop pretending like the FA market is a 1 for 1 representation of a player's value or ability. It isn't. Never has been.

Long-term contracts and rookie deals make FA a completely different animal. And that's the animal you're working with here.

That puts a thumb on the scale and yes, at this exact level of play, the market will easily support the kind of contract he was asking for last season.
[Reply]
Hoover 03:45 PM 11-30-2022
I've been pleased with OBJ's attitude throughout this entire ordeal. I think he's a good guy, and I think he appreciates and respects Veach. I have no problem with him playing on the tag this year. What we don't know is if time has had an impact on his demands. I guess what I'm saying is I think there is an opportunity for both Veach and OBJ to look like winners next offseason.
[Reply]
Sassy Squatch 03:51 PM 11-30-2022
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
So he will have shown a 2 year pattern of performance whereby he played as a top 10ish LT in football for a team that doesn't make it terribly easy on its LTs.

At 25 and 26 years old.

And you think that's NOT going to get him paid at/near the top of the T range?

Again - y'all have to stop pretending like the FA market is a 1 for 1 representation of a player's value or ability. It isn't. Never has been.

Long-term contracts and rookie deals make FA a completely different animal. And that's the animal you're working with here.

That puts a thumb on the scale and yes, at this exact level of play, the market will easily support the kind of contract he was asking for last season.
It could. But Veach has already made it pretty clear it won't be in this organization that he gets it, especially at the current standard of play Brown is at. They were pretty fucking far apart BEFORE this season, and Brown spending the early portion competing with Wylie and ankleless Smith for worst OL on the team weekly before finally returning to the standard he set last season certainly wouldn't make Veach MORE apt to give into his demands.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 03:53 PM 11-30-2022
Originally Posted by Superturtle:
It could. But Veach has already made it pretty clear it won't be in this organization that he gets it, especially at the current standard of play Brown is at. They were pretty fucking far apart BEFORE this season, and Brown spending the early portion competing with Wylie and ankleless Smith for worst OL on the team weekly before finally returning to the standard he set last season certainly wouldn't make Veach MORE apt to give into his demands.
A season playing LT on the most prolific offense in football is absolutely going to matter, PFF grades be dammed.

This is a system that demands a lot from its OTs and OBJ has proven he can play in it in such a way that allows the offense to be elite. That is going to carry weight.
[Reply]
Balto 03:55 PM 11-30-2022
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
So he will have shown a 2 year pattern of performance whereby he played as a top 10ish LT in football for a team that doesn't make it terribly easy on its LTs.

At 25 and 26 years old.

And you think that's NOT going to get him paid at/near the top of the T range?

Again - y'all have to stop pretending like the FA market is a 1 for 1 representation of a player's value or ability. It isn't. Never has been.

Long-term contracts and rookie deals make FA a completely different animal. And that's the animal you're working with here.

That puts a thumb on the scale and yes, at this exact level of play, the market will easily support the kind of contract he was asking for last season.

Doesn't it work both ways? You say OBJ could easily sit out if tagged again because he now has money and that getting that top LT contract could mean a lot to him. Why would he all of a sudden agree to change his mind and not ask for no fluff years like Veach offered, and probably will again, instead of wanting those guaranteed years?

Yes you said Tag/Trade route but what if we don't get any trade partners willing to give OBJ what he wants(like Veach)?
[Reply]
Sassy Squatch 03:59 PM 11-30-2022
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
A season playing LT on the most prolific offense in football is absolutely going to matter, PFF grades be dammed.

This is a system that demands a lot from its OTs and OBJ has proven he can play in it in such a way that allows the offense to be elite. That is going to carry weight.
First of all, who the fuck cares about PFF grades?

Second of all, he's also performed at such a low level that it effectively neutered the offense Reid wanted to run and had Mahomes completely off kilter for large stretches of games.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 04:06 PM 11-30-2022
I honestly don't know what to do here.

I have a hard time accepting that Veach would trade an unquestionably elite talent that demanded top of the market pay in Hill only to turn around and pay top THIRD/HALF type talent that demands top of the market pay in Brown. And Brown's probably something like that, top 10-15ish.

I don't know. You've got Jones you need to decide with. Juju. How do you IMPROVE next year when just treading water might be out of the question financially?

I really don't know.
[Reply]
Mecca 04:10 PM 11-30-2022
Originally Posted by Superturtle:
First of all, who the fuck cares about PFF grades?

Second of all, he's also performed at such a low level that it effectively neutered the offense Reid wanted to run and had Mahomes completely off kilter for large stretches of games.
According to Mitch Schwartz players do try to use PFF grades in contract negotiations.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 04:13 PM 11-30-2022
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
I honestly don't know what to do here.

I have a hard time accepting that Veach would trade an unquestionably elite talent that demanded top of the market pay in Hill only to turn around and pay top THIRD/HALF type talent that demands top of the market pay in Brown. And Brown's probably something like that, top 10-15ish.

I don't know. You've got Jones you need to decide with. Juju. How do you IMPROVE next year when just treading water might be out of the question financially?

I really don't know.
I think they would be making a calculated long-term decision based on the ages/positions of the respective players AND the marginal returns on their replacements.

Building an offense around a replacement for Tyreek Hill is, as we have seen, eminently doable.

It might be a heck of a lot more difficult to do that at LT. May not be, but that certainly appears to be the impetus behind the decision. And fellas - it's possible they're just right. It might even be likely that they are.

Far be it for me to color my view on the NEXT decision they make based on the previous big decision...especially when that decision appears to have been a pretty good one.
[Reply]
Sassy Squatch 04:13 PM 11-30-2022
Originally Posted by Mecca:
According to Mitch Schwartz players do try to use PFF grades in contract negotiations.
Well, I probably wouldn't go that route if I was Brown and his agent considered he's currently posting the worst grade of his career.
[Reply]
dlphg9 04:14 PM 11-30-2022
Originally Posted by Balto:
Doesn't it work both ways? You say OBJ could easily sit out if tagged again because he now has money and that getting that top LT contract could mean a lot to him. Why would he all of a sudden agree to change his mind and not ask for no fluff years like Veach offered, and probably will again, instead of wanting those guaranteed years?

Yes you said Tag/Trade route but what if we don't get any trade partners willing to give OBJ what he wants(like Veach)?
Wtf does this rambling shit even mean.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 04:17 PM 11-30-2022
Originally Posted by Balto:
Doesn't it work both ways? You say OBJ could easily sit out if tagged again because he now has money and that getting that top LT contract could mean a lot to him. Why would he all of a sudden agree to change his mind and not ask for no fluff years like Veach offered, and probably will again, instead of wanting those guaranteed years?

Yes you said Tag/Trade route but what if we don't get any trade partners willing to give OBJ what he wants(like Veach)?
Huh?

I've already spoken to all of this (I think; you're meandering a bit).

Plan A: Sign him to a LTC.

Plan B: If he insists on nothing but guaranteed dollars and an AAV that re-sets the tackle market, he's tied your hands and the Chiefs can't do that so you work the phones to check on the feasibility of a tag/trade. Now part of this also requires that you simply move on mentally from OBJ and draft/pursue his replacement.

Plan C: The tag/trade falls through - you rescind the tag, let him walk in FA and have already drafted/signed his replacement with the tag money that comes loose when the tag is rescinded.

As for willing partners - again, I've spoken to that as well. Not every team (in fact, very few of them) are in the same position the Chiefs are in re: their cap structure in the near and long terms do to their existing and future obligations to good/great players that they'll want to keep around. Many teams out there can throw 'Sammy Watkins' deals at luxury items where they're obviously overpriced but STILL within that teams salary structure.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 04:17 PM 11-30-2022
Originally Posted by dlphg9:
Wtf does this rambling shit even mean.
Yeah...uh...i gave it my best shot.
[Reply]
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