So there's an article on NFL network saying that Orlando Brown is expected to sign for 6 years $145 mil.
That comes to $24.16 mil/yr and makes him the highest paid offensive lineman in football. It also would give him the 19th highest salary per year in the NFL
How would you feel if that is the contract he ended up signing?
I'm fine with it. He is a top 5 LT and he's only 26 next season. A young great LT is a guy you can't let leave. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Aaaaaaahhhhhh...
Now that checks out. Stupid illiteracy strikes again.
Yeah, I mean, I have a bit of a hard time speaking to where anyone else should be on that graph and thus where he stands in relation to the competition, but just looking at his spot on the respective axes in a vacuum, both OBJ and Wylie seem...about right.
The Chiefs REALLY need to fall ass backwards into somebody like Larry Borom. That's a really solid RT the Bears grabbed in the 5th round who was suddenly starting by the middle of his rookie year.
Man, I still don't get that one. NEVER saw that coming. I know Mizzou Fans tend to be hard on Mizzou players, but damn. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla:
Man, I still don't get that one. NEVER saw that coming. I know Mizzou Fans tend to be hard on Mizzou players, but damn.
I didn't really either, but I probably should've. I suspect I didn't because A) He left early and it caught me a bit flat-footed and B) Well...like you said, we're hard on our own.
But he was a NOTHING recruit. Completely under the radar - barely a 3 star guy at all, if I recall. And he was something of a fatass to boot.
Then suddenly he's a starter as a Soph and by his Junior year he was legitimately one of the better OL in the SEC. It was that weird COVID year where they really shit the bed in the last 2 weeks of the season and mostly we just kinda wanted the year to be done so it got overlooked. But he really was damn good.
So with sober eyes, you see a guy who came into college as a fat, out of shape, lumbering afterthought of a recruit. Who then worked his way into an SEC starter as a Soph and a very good SEC player as a Junior. And in the process he weirdly became a very good pass blocker, which given his size, was always the thing that you figured would come along last if at all.
When you step back and look at it, he had one of the steeper and more impressive development arcs you'll see.
Then again, you could say a LOT of the same kind of things about Darian Kinnard and...well...{sigh}
Sometimes you do have to just get a little lucky in this game. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I didn't really either, but I probably should've. I suspect I didn't because A) He left early and it caught me a bit flat-footed and B) Well...like you said, we're hard on our own.
But he was a NOTHING recruit. Completely under the radar - barely a 3 star guy at all, if I recall. And he was something of a fatass to boot.
Then suddenly he's a starter as a Soph and by his Junior year he was legitimately one of the better OL in the SEC. It was that weird COVID year where they really shit the bed in the last 2 weeks of the season and mostly we just kinda wanted the year to be done so it got overlooked. But he really was damn good.
So with sober eyes, you see a guy who came into college as a fat, out of shape, lumbering afterthought of a recruit. Who then worked his way into an SEC starter as a Soph and a very good SEC player as a Junior. And in the process he weirdly became a very good pass blocker, which given his size, was always the thing that you figured would come along last if at all.
When you step back and look at it, he had one of the steeper and more impressive development arcs you'll see.
Then again, you could say a LOT of the same kind of things about Darian Kinnard and...well...{sigh}
Sometimes you do have to just get a little lucky in this game.
Not to butt into your conversation, but why isn't Kinnard doing better? I saw Mitchell Schwartz on a youtube thing say that kinnard doesn't get low enough as one of his biggest problems. It makes him prone to lunging, said Mitchell. And that he had trouble punching the rusher before the rusher got to him. But I guess what I'm getting at is how much of a project are we really talking about? [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
Not to butt into your conversation, but why isn't Kinnard doing better? I saw Mitchell Schwartz on a youtube thing say that kinnard doesn't get low enough as one of his biggest problems. It makes him prone to lunging, said Mitchell. And that he had trouble punching the rusher before the rusher got to him. But I guess what I'm getting at is how much of a project are we really talking about?
Seems to me that he can't get his top half and his bottom half to sync up.
That disastrous game that OBJ played against the Colts where he was either early with his punch or late with his slide seemingly every single snap? Evidently that's been Kinnard on every play.
He just doesn't have fast feet. When you have heavy feet you'd better have your technique down or you're gonna start cheating to keep from getting obliterated. And you can cheat against college kids but once you start cheating against NFL players, they're gonna embarrass you. First they'll start beating you inside, then they'll start setting you up to get back OUTSIDE, then they'll get you so turned around that they'll just go through you.
For those oversized O-lineman, especially those asked to play on the edge, your athleticism has to be premier or your technique has to be perfect. Kinnard's not a premium athlete and from what little I saw of him in the pre-season, certainly didn't have perfect technique.
As for what level of project - I dunno, what do you have in mind? As a T? Um...maybe infinitely big? I mean he was just sooooo baaaaad in the pre-season. I hate to give up on a guy that fast but holy shit he was awful. At G? Eh...long but not indefinite I guess?
Probably better served to just forget about him. I can't think of many (any?) late round picks to look that lost and ever amount to anything. Remember when the Chiefs drafted Kahlil Mckenzie, tried to convert him to OT, eventually cut him and some scrub-ass team eventually gave him a few games BACK at DT before he was out of the league?
Kahlil McKenzie looked better at OL having not played the position in college than Kinnard looked this pre-season.
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Seems to me that he can't get his top half and his bottom half to sync up.
That disastrous game that OBJ played against the Colts where he was either early with his punch or late with his slide seemingly every single snap? Evidently that's been Kinnard on every play.
He just doesn't have fast feet. When you have heavy feet you'd better have your technique down or you're gonna start cheating to keep from getting obliterated. And you can cheat against college kids but once you start cheating against NFL players, they're gonna embarrass you. First they'll start beating you inside, then they'll start setting you up to get back OUTSIDE, then they'll get you so turned around that they'll just go through you.
For those oversized O-lineman, especially those asked to play on the edge, your athleticism has to be premier or your technique has to be perfect. Kinnard's not a premium athlete and from what little I saw of him in the pre-season, certainly didn't have perfect technique.
As for what level of project - I dunno, what do you have in mind? As a T? Um...maybe infinitely big? I mean he was just sooooo baaaaad in the pre-season. I hate to give up on a guy that fast but holy shit he was awful. At G? Eh...long but not indefinite I guess?
Probably better served to just forget about him. I can't think of many (any?) late round picks to look that lost and ever amount to anything. Remember when the Chiefs drafted Kahlil Mckenzie, tried to convert him to OT, eventually cut him and some scrub-ass team eventually gave him a few games BACK at DT before he was out of the league?
Kahlil McKenzie looked better at OL having not played the position in college than Kinnard looked this pre-season.
I'm...not optimistic.
Kinnard's abilities scream "guard". A heard a lot of people say "duh, he's played tackle his entire college career!" - true, but if he wants a career beyond college he either needs to rebuild his technique, or more plausibly, move to guard, where we obviously don't have a need.
At that point in the draft you're obviously going for projects but people were so giddy with the earlier picks and Veach worship they ignored it. If I'm honest next draft I'd prefer us to target an athletic guy who needs to improve his play strength, rather than a bruiser with technique issues. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I didn't really either, but I probably should've. I suspect I didn't because A) He left early and it caught me a bit flat-footed and B) Well...like you said, we're hard on our own.
But he was a NOTHING recruit. Completely under the radar - barely a 3 star guy at all, if I recall. And he was something of a fatass to boot.
Then suddenly he's a starter as a Soph and by his Junior year he was legitimately one of the better OL in the SEC. It was that weird COVID year where they really shit the bed in the last 2 weeks of the season and mostly we just kinda wanted the year to be done so it got overlooked. But he really was damn good.
So with sober eyes, you see a guy who came into college as a fat, out of shape, lumbering afterthought of a recruit. Who then worked his way into an SEC starter as a Soph and a very good SEC player as a Junior. And in the process he weirdly became a very good pass blocker, which given his size, was always the thing that you figured would come along last if at all.
When you step back and look at it, he had one of the steeper and more impressive development arcs you'll see.
Then again, you could say a LOT of the same kind of things about Darian Kinnard and...well...{sigh}
Sometimes you do have to just get a little lucky in this game.
Like you said, Borom was thrust into a starting role in the middle of his rookie season. We're not quite halfway yet so there's still time for Kinnard. :-) [Reply]
I'm really kind of souring on the diatribe that you shouldn't or can't go up and get a guy in various threads, especially when it comes to LT.
If the 2011 Falcons can go from 27 to 6 and get a WR, then you bet your ass that Veach could go up and get a LT.
The price was 2011 1, 2, and 4 and 2012 1 and 4.
Would I give that much up? Maybe not THAT much, but I'd give up damn near it if it meant I thought I was getting a true, lock-down, LT for my stud QB.
After all, KC moved from 27 to 10 in 2017 for a meager 1st, 3rd, and 2018 1st.
Put me somewhere in that realm and I'm making the move without batting an eye, and I 100% believe Jaelyn Duncan is going to be worth that type of move.
This is the one position in the sport nearly as important as a franchise QB. We have the franchise QB. How about putting him in a position of not having to run for his life every time he drops back to pass? [Reply]
They are very attracted to having a lot of darts instead of higher probability darts.
It's fine, I mean every once in a while you fall into a 4th round stud like Bakhtiari... Just not very often. It takes going into the top 18, generally, just to get a starting caliber LT. [Reply]
Originally Posted by kccrow:
I'm really kind of souring on the diatribe that you shouldn't or can't go up and get a guy in various threads, especially when it comes to LT.
If the 2011 Falcons can go from 27 to 6 and get a WR, then you bet your ass that Veach could go up and get a LT.
The price was 2011 1, 2, and 4 and 2012 1 and 4.
Would I give that much up? Maybe not THAT much, but I'd give up damn near it if it meant I thought I was getting a true, lock-down, LT for my stud QB.
After all, KC moved from 27 to 10 in 2017 for a meager 1st, 3rd, and 2018 1st.
Put me somewhere in that realm and I'm making the move without batting an eye, and I 100% believe Jaelyn Duncan is going to be worth that type of move.
This is the one position in the sport nearly as important as a franchise QB. We have the franchise QB. How about putting him in a position of not having to run for his life every time he drops back to pass?
The problem is, we're in dire need of another pass rusher as well. You can't throw that much draft capital at one spot without really screwing yourself in others.
I'd give Green Bay a second and pay Nijman before I'd do all of that. No, he's not Willie Roaf, but I don't know that anyone in this draft is. But he's a good pass blocking LT, and he'll be cheaper than OBJ. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
The problem is, we're in dire need of another pass rusher as well. You can't throw that much draft capital at one spot without really screwing yourself in others.
I'd give Green Bay a second and pay Nijman before I'd do all of that. No, he's not Willie Roaf, but I don't know that anyone in this draft is. But he's a good pass blocking LT, and he'll be cheaper than OBJ.
You sure are loving you some Nijman. Every post you've made in this thread links back to that dude. Does he owe you money or something? [Reply]
